Landlord planning to demolish property

[pooky2483]

I have just found out that our LL is planning to demolish our bungalow to erect 2 houses on the land.
Back in summer this year we had 2 guys doing a land survey and we asked them what they were doing and they told us they were doing a land survey. We asked why and they said the LL is either planning on selling the property or building something.They also told us that they were told that there was no one at the property.

So I phoned the agents acting for our LL and they said that they had no idea what was going on and would contact the LL. We still have not got a reply.

Last week, I found a notice on the lamp post outside our property informing of intention to demolish and erect 2 dwellings on the land.
I again called the LL's agent and again, they said that they had no idea what was going on and would contact the LL. And again, we still have not had an answer. When was the LL ever going to tell us of his plans? probably never if it wasn't for the notice placed outside by the Council. They even sent letters to around 20 residents of the neighbouring streets, we were th last to know of the LL's plans.

During our tenancy we informed the LL through the agents that we want to make improvements to the property. One of the improvements was to carpet the property throughout and the LL said that there was no problem, which we did at a cost of just over £1,400. We have also spent about £250 on wallpaper, all done with no knowledge of the LL's intention to demolish. A little history on getting the LL to do anything... We have been asking since we moved in, in Mar 2010 to get the central heating boiler upgraded/renewed as is has not been updated since 1985 (when the property was built), even informing the LL that as we are on benefits, we could get a grant of up to £3k to help with the renewal but not even that was good enough. It seems the LL finally relented last year and replaced the combi-boiler.

We have also being telling the LL that the fence is in need of repair as one of the corner panels is always coming out in windy weather. I even sent an email informing the LL that we would not be held responsible if the fence gets blown and causes damage or harm, that was around 2 years ago too. It is still lying on the garden waiting to be fixed. Could we say that failing to repair the fence even after being informed of its state is a breach of tenancy agreement?

[MrsD]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

Pooky your local council will have a an eplanning webside where all the details of the proposed development will be registered. Just find it and look up the details using the address. There is also a place to object there if you so wish. I hope you've been getting the ongoing disputes and permissions in writing?

I'll ask PlanB to pop in as this is more her area. but I didn't want to read and run.xxx

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

I've already spoken to my next door neighbour and he said that he knew about it too and has spoken to others and the object to it and that he and a few others have made an objection to it on the council web site. He also said that there is a meeting about it, don't remember whether he said a council meeting or other?

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

I've already spoken to my next door neighbour and he said that he knew about it too and has spoken to others and the object to it and that he and a few others have made an objection to it on the council web site. He also said that there is a meeting about it, don't remember whether he said a council meeting or other?

It's probably best for me to tackle the planning issue separately from the Landlord maintenance issues.

Please don't panic simply because someone has made a planning application. These things can take a year or more to trundle through the system, maybe even longer if there is an Appeal. Sometimes property owners get planning permission to increase the value of the property (typically 10%) even though they have no intention of carrying out the work. Planning Consent has a three year shelf-life (which can usually be renewed) so the works may not be imminent. It's possible that your Landlord is considering selling the property to a developer which could lengthen the timescale even more while that transaction goes through.

When is your current tenancy agreement due to expire because what ever happens your Landlord can't evict you while you have a tenancy agreement.

You say you've spent £1,400 on carpet and £250 on wallpaper since you moved into the house in March 2010. If you tried to recover this sum the Landlord could argue that you've had (almost) four years 'enjoyment' of this so your loss wouldn't be the full £1,650. Did you get anything in writing about the work you wanted to carry out and who would be responsible for the cost? If you simply sought permission to 'do your own thing' then I'm not sure you would have a claim against your Landlord.

The stark truth is the Landlord owns the property not you and he has the freedom to do what he likes with it. Having said that it's a pity he didn't tell you of his plans even though he is under no obligations to do so. But as you will read in Miss Daffodil's thread sometimes a Landlord keeps the secret because (a) they genuinely have no idea when the project will kick into action and (b) they don't want the Tenant to panic and move out. http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post334785

I see from the Notice dated 15th November that you or any interested party have 21 days to raise objections. This is a statutory time limit which cannot be changed. I fear you've missed the boat on that one but no harm in registering your objection anyway. Whether the council will pay any regard to your complaint is another matter since you are a tenant and not the homeowner. I see no harm in putting in a late objection even if that simply demonstrates a high level of objection.

If a planning application gets more than a certain number of objections (I think it's only 2) then the decision to grant or not to grant consent is taken away from the Delegated Officer and the application is referred to a Planning Committee who will sometimes hold a public meeting. Anyone can go along to that a speak their mind.

The Planning department can only consider complaints of any potential harm to the neighbourhood (for example is it pig ugly and is it in a Conservation Area) or in breach of various boring Acts relating to 'right to light', too close to adjoining property, dangerous vehicle access and so on. I'm afraid the fact that you are a tenant who feels conned by your Landlord is not a planning issue.

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

We have also being telling the LL that the fence is in need of repair as one of the corner panels is always coming out in windy weather. I even sent an email informing the LL that we would not be held responsible if the fence gets blown and causes damage or harm, that was around 2 years ago too. It is still lying on the garden waiting to be fixed. Could we say that failing to repair the fence even after being informed of its state is a breach of tenancy agreement?

Can you clarify did you tell your Landlord or the agent about the fence problem? I must say two years to get the job fixed is unreasonable. A lot depends on the terms of your tenancy agreement but normally a Landlord is expected to carry out repairs promptly. And two years isn't exactly prompt.

So in theory your Landlord could be in breach of the tenancy agreement but why don't you tell me what you are trying to achieve. Do you want your Landlord to give you two months' notice to quit if he's lawfully allowed to (if the original fixed term has expired)? He may well do that if you get into an argument. Or do you want the fence fixing? Why not get a quote for fixing the fence and send it to him so he can see how easy it will be to get this problem sorted.

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

We have been asking since we moved in, in Mar 2010 to get the central heating boiler upgraded/renewed as is has not been updated since 1985 (when the property was built), even informing the LL that as we are on benefits, we could get a grant of up to £3k to help with the renewal but not even that was good enough. It seems the LL finally relented last year and replaced the combi-boiler.

What was the problem with the boiler which you asked to be upgraded? £3k would have more than covered the cost of a new boiler (probably two!) so I can't think why he refused the grant on offer. As far as I'm aware Landlords don't qualify for grants only homeowners. What was the scheme which allowed you as Tenants to get a grant which would benefit him as well as you?

What's really important is that if you have a gas boiler this must have an annual safety check by a member of Gas Safe (formerly known as CORGI) and your Landlord should also have provided you with a carbon monoxide alarm. If that hasn't happened then I'll tell you what to do about it depending on your answer.

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

It's probably best for me to tackle the planning issue separately from the Landlord maintenance issues.


Please don't panic simply because someone has made a planning application. These things can take a year or more to trundle through the system, maybe even longer if there is an Appeal. Sometimes property owners get planning permission to increase the value of the property (typically 10%) even though they have no intention of carrying out the work. Planning Consent has a three year shelf-life (which can usually be renewed) so the works may not be imminent. It's possible that your Landlord is considering selling the property to a developer which could lengthen the timescale even more while that transaction goes through.

I have PM'ed you the reference to look at the details on the site (address on the 'Public Notice').

When is your current tenancy agreement due to expire because what ever happens your Landlord can't evict you while you have a tenancy agreement.

The tenancy agreement expires 2nd Mar 2014

You say you've spent £1,400 on carpet and £250 on wallpaper since you moved into the house in March 2010. If you tried to recover this sum the Landlord could argue that you've had (almost) four years 'enjoyment' of this so your loss wouldn't be the full £1,650. Did you get anything in writing about the work you wanted to carry out and who would be responsible for the cost? If you simply sought permission to 'do your own thing' then I'm not sure you would have a claim against your Landlord.

We've been here since Mar 2010 but only had the carpet fitted Aug 2012 and wallpapered the same time. At no time did the LL inform us of his plans. The carpet (& underlay) has a lifetime guarantee (will have to read the T&C's regarding it's continuation if original buyer leaves). We had even asked if we could improve the kitchen by way of adding more cupboards and drawers (which there are none) and he said that we could.

The stark truth is the Landlord owns the property not you and he has the freedom to do what he likes with it. Having said that it's a pity he didn't tell you of his plans even though he is under no obligations to do so. But as you will read in Miss Daffodil's thread sometimes a Landlord keeps the secret because (a) they genuinely have no idea when the project will kick into action and (b) they don't want the Tenant to panic and move out. http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post334785

He is a very difficult LL to deal with, he is using a LA and we have to contact them who in turn contact him, because he works abroad 90% of the time, he is very difficult to get hold of and so, things take time to be given the green light. He will not let them use their own 'repair' guys or anyone to do with plumbing or electric. he gets his own 'people' in. We requested, back in the early days of the tennancy to have the central heating upgraded/updated and even offered help in way of a grant of up to £3k but he didnt want to know, we continued asking for about 1 1/2 years and then out of the blue, he had a new combi-boiler fitted. We are also having an issue with the fence at the front, a pannel has come loose and every time there's a strong wind, it gets blown away. We have informed the LA countless times also telling them that we will not be held liable if the fence pannel causes any harm or damage.

I see from the Notice dated 15th November that you or any interested party have 21 days to raise objections. This is a statutory time limit which cannot be changed. I fear you've missed the boat on that one but no harm in registering your objection anyway. Whether the council will pay any regard to your complaint is another matter since you are a tenant and not the homeowner. I see no harm in putting in a late objection even if that simply demonstrates a high level of objection.

I have just spoken to someone at the planning Dep't and they have said that I can put in my objection and has given me her email address.

If a planning application gets more than a certain number of objections (I think it's only 2) then the decision to grant or not to grant consent is taken away from the Delegated Officer and the application is referred to a Planning Committee who will sometimes hold a public meeting. Anyone can go along to that a speak their mind.


The Planning department can only consider complaints of any potential harm to the neighbourhood (for example is it pig ugly and is it in a Conservation Area) or in breach of various boring Acts relating to 'right to light', too close to adjoining property, dangerous vehicle access and so on. I'm afraid the fact that you are a tenant who feels conned by your Landlord is not a planning issue.

The application has got 4, 5 including mine.

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

Can you clarify did you tell your Landlord or the agent about the fence problem? I must say two years to get the job fixed is unreasonable. A lot depends on the terms of your tenancy agreement but normally a Landlord is expected to carry out repairs promptly. And two years isn't exactly prompt.


So in theory your Landlord could be in breach of the tenancy agreement but why don't you tell me what you are trying to achieve. Do you want your Landlord to give you two months' notice to quit if he's lawfully allowed to (if the original fixed term has expired)? He may well do that if you get into an argument. Or do you want the fence fixing? Why not get a quote for fixing the fence and send it to him so he can see how easy it will be to get this problem sorted.

I have to tell the LL's agent as we have no contact details to the LL. We are just wanting the fence repaired, if we can have anything done about the length of time taken to do nothing since being informed of the needed repair, that would be a bonus.

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

What was the problem with the boiler which you asked to be upgraded? £3k would have more than covered the cost of a new boiler (probably two!) so I can't think why he refused the grant on offer. As far as I'm aware Landlords don't qualify for grants only homeowners. What was the scheme which allowed you as Tenants to get a grant which would benefit him as well as you?


What's really important is that if you have a gas boiler this must have an annual safety check by a member of Gas Safe (formerly known as CORGI) and your Landlord should also have provided you with a carbon monoxide alarm. If that hasn't happened then I'll tell you what to do about it depending on your answer.

It was old (fitted to the property back when the bungalow was built, back in the 70's). Ist there something somewhere that says it has to be replaced every 10 years or so?
It does have an anual safety check, by one of his own people, not supplied by the LA. We do not have a carbon monoxide alarm.

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

I also don't think the wiring has been replaced since the property was built, as it is still the single colours and not the striped colours we have now.
Isn't that a breach, as shouldn't that be renewed every 10 years? If so, there's a breach of some law there.

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

Thanks for your PM

I've had a good look at those plans and I've read the four objections already lodged. I'm going to give you my observations in no particular order.

The plans have been drawn up by an architectural practice who will know what is likely to be acceptable to the council and what is not. They wouldn't have submitted plans which are likely to fail in the overall spirit of the development, but they may be vulnerable to some amendments. I can see from the Design & Access statement that there have been Pre-Submission discussions with the planning officer who would have advised them on what they can and can't do in advance.

I'm surprised to see a two story building being proposed in replacement of a bungalow (single story). Normally height matters. However I don't know what the other houses are like in the street. If it's a row of bungalows then that may be a problem for them, but if there are other two story houses either side they may be in with a chance.

I can see objections to creating an oversupply of parking problem, but I can also see two parking spaces provided on the plot so that won't wash. Unless the access has changed. There is already a garage on the land so access has been previously established presumably with a dropped curb on the pavement. That could prevent any argument about safety issues for pedestrians etc. I can see that the council Highways Team have been consulted and produced a report but for some reason I can't open the document. They would normally carry out a survey of the number of vehicles going up and down the street on any one day and check for a history of accidents. The application refers to a new second access but since this is a corner plot they may be permitted that (i.e. the second access point is in a different street).

All those objections refer to potential loss of light and privacy by neighbouring properties which will be considered. However from your point of view your bungalow won't suffer from loss of light or privacy because it will have been demolished before the new houses are erected. If you follow me.

It's precisely because you/your current house won't be there I have difficulty in suggesting what your personal objections might be. This doesn't stop you objecting for general reasons that may affect others in the neighbourhood but you can't blame loss of light or privacy which are the ones that work best.

Now back to the question what do you want to achieve? You can throw some curved balls by objecting to anything and everything which will delay the process and give you more time in the property. Your tenancy agreement runs until March 2014. No one can get you out before then. Likewise you have no right to stay there after then. I think you need a cards on the table discussion with the owner (separate post coming up).

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

We've been here since Mar 2010 but only had the carpet fitted Aug 2012 and wallpapered the same time. At no time did the LL inform us of his plans.

. . . He is a very difficult LL to deal with, he is using a LA and we have to contact them who in turn contact him, because he works abroad 90% of the time, he is very difficult to get hold of and so, things take time to be given the green light. He will not let them use their own 'repair' guys or anyone to do with plumbing or electric.

Is your Landlord Mr Gxxxe and is the tenancy agreement in his own name or his company's name as per the planning application? That company is based in Llandudno North Wales so it should be easy to contact him direct never mind the lazy letting agent. Sometimes it's the agent who doesn't get things organised promptly because there's no money in it for them. If they send out their own contractors they get commission on the recommended work (which is why some agents over-recommend). Let me know if I've got the right Landlord and then I'll add some more information.

Do you pay your rent to the agent or to the Landlord because this could make a difference?

I sense your outrage that this has been done behind your back when you've invested some of your own money. If you got that money back would you be happy? If you keep things civil you may be able to negotiate a free month's rent or two before you go. I note you say you're on benefits which may include Housing Benefit (LA). It could be fraud if you had a free rent period but still claim HB so it would be better to claim back the actual amount spent.

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

I can see objections to creating an oversupply of parking problem, but I can also see two parking spaces provided on the plot so that won't wash. Unless the access has changed. There is already a garage on the land so access has been previously established presumably with a dropped curb on the pavement. That could prevent any argument about safety issues for pedestrians etc. I can see that the council Highways Team have been consulted and produced a report but for some reason I can't open the document. They would normally carry out a survey of the number of vehicles going up and down the street on any one day and check for a history of accidents. The application refers to a new second access but since this is a corner plot they may be permitted that (i.e. the second access point is in a different street).

Re accidents;
There have been THREE in the last 4 years. ALL to do with OUR car.
The first one was caused by a council refuse lorry reversing down our street to empty the bins, the street is only 50 metres long and can be accessed either end. The damage caused cost £2,400 to fix.


The next one was caused by a woman (no offence to women) who also reversed down our street, using it as a turning point as one of the streets at the end of our street is a dead end. We are in total amazement as to how and why she hit our car as we now park half on the path (given the OK by Police and Traffic Wardens). there was no car parked opposite us so she had the full width of one side of the road plus the half we gave up by parking on the path.


The last one was again due to using our street at a turning point. This time a lorry, they thought they had completely past the car before completing their manoeuvre of turning to face the other way. The back end corner took out the indicators and scraped the paintwork a bit.

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

Ah ha. Then you may have cause to object on the issue of so many historical vehicle accidents which may increase if there is an extra driveway/access. If there is no off-street parking (because the second access is refused) the second house would be worth a lot less.

Let me give this some thought. There's a part of me which thinks you could do a deal with your Landlord that you won't object to his plans if he pays you back the money you've invested. Some may call that blackmail but I call it 'negotiating'.

[pooky2483]

Re: Landlord planning to demolish property

I can see that the council Highways Team have been consulted and produced a report but for some reason I can't open the document. They would normally carry out a survey of the number of vehicles going up and down the street on any one day and check for a history of accidents. The application refers to a new second access but since this is a corner plot they may be permitted that (i.e. the second access point is in a different street).

It downloads to your PC, check your 'Downloads' folder. If you still haven't got it, I can send you a copy.