Long Term Sick and HR issue

[malamute]

Hi there, I want to help my mum she's being blindsided and its really getting her quite upset now.

Story:
Mum works in a hospital as a carer - hurt her back one day at work - been sick since (nrly 6months!) - Dr and Occupational Health said after 3months off that she was fit to return to work on light duties - her manager wouldn't allow this as she wanted mum back at work 100% fit so she remained off sick on what was referred to as "Special Leave".

New manager takes over and wants to push for mum to come back so schedules a "sickness meeting" with HR and mgr and mum.

Mum asks to record the meeting (historial issues between old manager saying one thing at meeting and then backtracking). They said that it can only be recorded on "encrypted machine" when this was queried "the trust has set a precendent that only encrypted recording devices can be used" eh?!

So anyway - the meeting was brought forward by 1 week so mum turns up only to be told that the meeting was to be delayed while they got the occupational health report. In the meeting they mention re-deploying mum to another area, then give her 6 weeks to return to 100% health then say they can dismiss her if she doesnt returns to 100%, there was even a tick box on the managers suggestion to retire my mum early for this - she's 53!!!

When she asks for a copy of policies refer to by name to clarify her position - she is told "i can confirm that the Policy states the Trust is responsible for maintaining records of sickness absences. Although this does not mention Formal Meetings. It does not specifically identify the mechanism for recording such meetings, it is however precedent in the Trust that all meetings are recorded using an encrypted digital recorder"

How can they rely on precendent in this situation.

Anyway - during the metting it was stopped twice so HR and mum's mgr could privately confer - is this allowed?


Mum received an email from the director of HR (OMG for an executive director the quality of the language and arguements are child like and terribly written.)



My mum has been told by health professionals that she can return to wqork on amended duties with a view to return to 100% in due course with the correct treatment in place - physio etc. - her manager and HR won't accept this and refuse to supply policies and only refer to them by they subheadings or acronyms (seriously they emails she's received are shocking).

Its reached a silly point now and I need a concrete - shove it up ya up and do ya job properly letter for HR.

sorry didn't mean to go on!!

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Hi Malamut,
I'll ask Tasty Jane to look in as she's very good with HR issues.

Putting aside what others say, does your mum herself feel able to return to work?

Is this an NHS Hospital Trust? If so has your Mum been informed about NHS Injury Benefit? Link: NHS Injury Benefit Scheme NHS Business Services Authority


I take it she's not in a Union as she seems to be trying to deal with this on her own?

Elsa xx

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Hi Malamut,
I'll ask Tasty Jane to look in as she's very good with HR issues.

Putting aside what others say, does your mum herself feel able to return to work?

Is this an NHS Hospital Trust? If so has your Mum been informed about NHS Injury Benefit? Link: NHS Injury Benefit Scheme NHS Business Services Authority


I take it she's not in a Union as she seems to be trying to deal with this on her own?

Elsa xx

It was then it was taken over by a company - the legal structure/changes are very confusing.

She has a union rep but with all due respect to good ones - her's are utter sh*te - in 6 months she met one - left upteen messages and told she'll be called back in 24 hours. When the rep receives a meeting request for a meeting that she can't attend it won't be rescheduled she ignores the invite.

All mum is told is to copy the union rep in on email correspondance as the union won't correspond with my mum's manager or HR reps directly.

Mum is being called daily by the manager asking how she is - she's a mess.

My mum loves her job and feels fine to return on the amended duties (there's one "manaovre" she's not ok to do with a bad back but that's it).

Thanks for the link I'll check it out anyway and see if Tasty Jane is about.

XXX

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

I found it

Malmute, just a couple of questions, how long has she been employed by the company? I take it she was Tupe'd over when it changed status so continuous employment please.

You say she did the damage in work - did she report it, has this been acknowledged? Was it entered into the accident book and was RIDOR informed?

Lets get the full picture and we can look at how to respond. It appears to me that she is happy to go back with a slight reduction in her duties so tell her not to worry, could be bordering on discrimination if they refuse to accommodate changes to work practice if they could easily. Tell her not to worry - they sound like bullies who like the sounds of their own voices and in my experience when people do this they usually drop themselves right in the sh*t

Jane x

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

I found it

Malmute, just a couple of questions, how long has she been employed by the company? I take it she was Tupe'd over when it changed status so continuous employment please.

You say she did the damage in work - did she report it, has this been acknowledged? Was it entered into the accident book and was RIDOR informed?

Lets get the full picture and we can look at how to respond. It appears to me that she is happy to go back with a slight reduction in her duties so tell her not to worry, could be bordering on discrimination if they refuse to accommodate changes to work practice if they could easily. Tell her not to worry - they sound like bullies who like the sounds of their own voices and in my experience when people do this they usually drop themselves right in the sh*t

Jane x

She's worked there over 10 years.

It was reported and went into the accident book.

RIDOR? (sorry I'll ask her)

They don't appear to want her to return unless she is 100% fit as she was put on special leave by her manager when the dr said she was "fit to return on amended duties" so that HR and manager could discuss - that's taken 3 months and still going.

Why can they say that although something is not in a policy "there is a precendent"?

Thanks SO much!!

[SXGuy]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Surely she has a legal right to ask for copies of any recordings made in an interview? encrypted or not.

Secondly, whats to stop her making her own recordings? just because they have precedents, means nothing, as far as i know, theres nothing stoping you recording your own, nor asking for copies of theirs?

Prescendent just means they followed a certain path in the past, they sound like they are treating it as law or something!

[jimmy]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

I hope no one minds me asking as I am new to the forum and not quite sure how it works

When they talk about retirement , is that on full pension i.e what she would be getting if she had worked until retirement age and would there be restrictions on her working anywhere else

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Surely she has a legal right to ask for copies of any recordings made in an interview? encrypted or not.

Secondly, whats to stop her making her own recordings? just because they have precedents, means nothing, as far as i know, theres nothing stoping you recording your own, nor asking for copies of theirs?

Prescendent just means they followed a certain path in the past, they sound like they are treating it as law or something!

I've checked and an employee can record a meeting if they wish to. An employer needs mum's permission to do so.

The precedent thing is annoying me as yes i agree they are making it sound legal so my mum feels blindsided by it - they admit its not in their policy just a "precendent" - my point is so what!

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

I hope no one minds me asking as I am new to the forum and not quite sure how it works

When they talk about retirement , is that on full pension i.e what she would be getting if she had worked until retirement age and would there be restrictions on her working anywhere else

No probs you asking at all - and welcome! -

They mentioned retirement and my mum is too nervous to push on this as she doesn't want to retire she wants to get back to the work she enjoyed before she hurt her back.

My point on it is that by them mentioning it it makes reference to her age and that makes me feel they trying to push her out. They wouldn't mention retiring her if she was 35 now would they?

[SXGuy]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Thats blatant discrimination, im not a HR Expert, but i do know, they can not discriminate on age anymore, and suggesting retiring her based on her age is discrimination!! I bet she would win hands down if she took them to tribunial

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Thats blatant discrimination, im not a HR Expert, but i do know, they can not discriminate on age anymore, and suggesting retiring her based on her age is discrimination!! I bet she would win hands down if she took them to tribunial

Phew and I thought I was being difficult - glad you see that too.

Its such a simple case to me.

Healthcare professionals - gp and 3 occupational health reports (hr and mgr asked for second and third opinions!) all state that mum can return to work on amended duties.

its just seems the HR and manager don't want her back.

[SA Gold]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

It's always been a grey area this whole "fit for work thing" if you ask me.
For example, someone who has recovered from an accident/operation may be "fit for work" in an office where risks are minimal, compared to your mums position Mal, which i guess being a carer may have to help people get up, out of bed, etc.

I would suggest your mum makes her own diary of events, although the fact this injury was whilst in work should, hopefully help if it did turn naughty.

As for union reps: i find its better to use ones that are not connected to the employer in any way. I've heard (and seen) too many cases where things are blatantly wrong as a result of the connection.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Missy

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

It's always been a grey area this whole "fit for work thing" if you ask me.
For example, someone who has recovered from an accident/operation may be "fit for work" in an office where risks are minimal, compared to your mums position Mal, which i guess being a carer may have to help people get up, out of bed, etc.

I would suggest your mum makes her own diary of events, although the fact this injury was whilst in work should, hopefully help if it did turn naughty.

As for union reps: i find its better to use ones that are not connected to the employer in any way. I've heard (and seen) too many cases where things are blatantly wrong as a result of the connection.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Missy

I would agree there is a grey area - but if you want to bring "precedent" into it she thought she'd be ok as there are colleagues in her job that have been through the same without this grief.

She's walked through a typical day on the unit with HR and mgr and stated that there is only one thing that may present an issue - a emergency situation known by a specific name - now these are documented as they are required to and in the last 18 months there has been 1 - which was prioir to my mum's sick period.

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Right if it was put in the accident book it should have been reported to RIDOR which is good as this acknowledges that the incident leading to the damage to her back was caused by an accident/incident at work.

She is entitled to all copies of the records/minutes of any and all meetings that have been held and she needs to get those.

With regards to policy and precedent - any precedent cannot override policy that's rubbish. Your mum needs to get copies of their policies - most places will have a staff handbook containing them - has she ever been issued with one?

There was a change to sickness notes - they are no longer even called that - they are fit to work certificates and it looks like your mum's doctor has been very good and highlighted with reduced duties your mum can be phased back to full time employment. A company cannot ignore this - they are on very dodgy ground, she caused the issue in work and is happy and willing to return to work at reduced duties working towards 100% as quickly as her and her medical advisors feel is right. If her doctor was saying she would always have to work at a reduced level then they could argue that they couldn't accommodate the change on work practice due to staff levels etc but that isn't being said here.

The NHS seem to automatically offer early retirement on ill health grounds once you hit 50 to be honest.

In the first instance she needs to gather all the information - any medical reports sent, minutes taken, policies and procedures. Then lets take a look at what's going on.

Jane x

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Told you she was good didn't I?