Long Term Sick and HR issue

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Right if it was put in the accident book it should have been reported to RIDOR which is good as this acknowledges that the incident leading to the damage to her back was caused by an accident/incident at work.

She is entitled to all copies of the records/minutes of any and all meetings that have been held and she needs to get those.

With regards to policy and precedent - any precedent cannot override policy that's rubbish. Your mum needs to get copies of their policies - most places will have a staff handbook containing them - has she ever been issued with one?

There was a change to sickness notes - they are no longer even called that - they are fit to work certificates and it looks like your mum's doctor has been very good and highlighted with reduced duties your mum can be phased back to full time employment. A company cannot ignore this - they are on very dodgy ground, she caused the issue in work and is happy and willing to return to work at reduced duties working towards 100% as quickly as her and her medical advisors feel is right. If her doctor was saying she would always have to work at a reduced level then they could argue that they couldn't accommodate the change on work practice due to staff levels etc but that isn't being said here.

The NHS seem to automatically offer early retirement on ill health grounds once you hit 50 to be honest.

In the first instance she needs to gather all the information - any medical reports sent, minutes taken, policies and procedures. Then lets take a look at what's going on.

Jane x

THanks for this it is very reassuring.

The recent information we've been given is that whilst they acknowledge that she can return to work on amended duties as advised she is a health and safety risk and they won't accomodate her even if it is temporary. I am keen to know if they can say no to temporary changes.

to quote: "The manager has explained to you the rationale for not being able to facilitate the necessary temporary adjustments recommended in your substantive role, therefore temporary redeployment options are under review"

The policies have been requested several times over and she's told in written communications "I can confirm that the Policy states...." with no copy.

Seriously, the quality of their written word makes things so much harder.

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

OK this seems to be stupid - what is it exactly that your mum does? Does she work in a team or lone working? What is her doctor saying is her reduced capability (in English what is it she cant do?).

They can say that they cannot facilitate the adjustment but they would have to have a very strong case not to - hmmm let me think of an occasion that would be the case...... if someone could not lift or turn a patient and they worked as a nurse on a ward where 90% of the patients were bedbound so the greatest proportion of the day to day work would be restricted, then there May be a case for not facilitating an adjustment as the whole team would be put under an unreasonable increased work load, even this would be iffy to be honest as they could look at redeployment of duties in the short term..... but this might help you understand why sometimes they can say that. From the little I know this isn't the case with your mum.

She needs to put in writing to her HR department her request for all policies - I would give them a timescale 5 working days would be reasonable I would have thought. Also is she being paid whilst off sick? Do you know if there was ever an investigation when the original injury took place? She would be entitled to the notes on that too. Has she considered a personal injury claim?

Jane x

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

OK this seems to be stupid - what is it exactly that your mum does? Does she work in a team or lone working? What is her doctor saying is her reduced capability (in English what is it she cant do?).

They can say that they cannot facilitate the adjustment but they would have to have a very strong case not to - hmmm let me think of an occasion that would be the case...... if someone could not lift or turn a patient and they worked as a nurse on a ward where 90% of the patients were bedbound so the greatest proportion of the day to day work would be restricted, then there May be a case for not facilitating an adjustment as the whole team would be put under an unreasonable increased work load, even this would be iffy to be honest as they could look at redeployment of duties in the short term..... but this might help you understand why sometimes they can say that. From the little I know this isn't the case with your mum.

She needs to put in writing to her HR department her request for all policies - I would give them a timescale 5 working days would be reasonable I would have thought. Also is she being paid whilst off sick? Do you know if there was ever an investigation when the original injury took place? She would be entitled to the notes on that too. Has she considered a personal injury claim?

Jane x

Mum works is a specific mental health unit for eldery patient (alzeihmers). She can do everything except what she calls "control and restraint" referring to an emergency siutaution when they have to get several staff members to restrain a client. Other tools are used hoist etc literally is the restraint thingy. Oh and they work in pairs as well. In plain english its fast quick manauvres i.e. in an emergency everything else is fine as they have to make slow controlled moves to move a client anyway - hope that makes sense. My mum can walk without aid and is not on constant pain relief.

Re: she has been on full pay - when she was given the first "fit to work on amended duties" she was put on annual leave (so again full pay) and then she was put on "special leave" whilst it was being investigated how she can return and when.

Will request all policies again formally.

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Told you she was good didn't I?

I think my mum is starting to feel more positive already x

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

OK so there is no reason why the team cannot accommodate the reduced duties of your mum; if I was managing the team I can only imagine if this situation is to arise then it would need a lot of paperwork doing in relation to the restraint - simple, your mum is allocated the role of paperwork so enabling the other members of staff to be free to continue the care of the elderly patient. If they need several members of staff that would intimate to me that staffing levels must be relatively high. Again this seems rubbish.

If they are calling for an occupational health assessment lets hope they see some sense, but I don't think you mum has anything to worry about - worst case they end her employment, she takes them straight to tribunal for unfair dismissal - not ideal but you would have the opportunity to force them to instate if it got that far! Your mum will not be out of pocket for this promise.

Jane x

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

OK so there is no reason why the team cannot accommodate the reduced duties of your mum; if I was managing the team I can only imagine if this situation is to arise then it would need a lot of paperwork doing in relation to the restraint - simple, your mum is allocated the role of paperwork so enabling the other members of staff to be free to continue the care of the elderly patient. If they need several members of staff that would intimate to me that staffing levels must be relatively high. Again this seems rubbish.

If they are calling for an occupational health assessment lets hope they see some sense, but I don't think you mum has anything to worry about - worst case they end her employment, she takes them straight to tribunal for unfair dismissal - not ideal but you would have the opportunity to force them to instate if it got that far! Your mum will not be out of pocket for this promise.

Jane x

Mum's seen the OH rep three times already and HR have been advised the same - fit with short term amended duties.

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

OK, what are they suggesting the next steps then? I think your mum needs to get all the information together, medical reports detailing reduced duties, policies, RIDOR report, timeline and then take to them her proposal for returning to work - from what you have said she is happy to return as long as she is not actively involved in restraint - As part of the meeting I would quote the statistics if I could of how many times in the last 6 months an occasion of this restraint has arisen. Don't forget she can be accompanied at these meetings so if it was my mum I would go along - you wouldn't be able to speak but you could call for the meeting to be adjourned if you wanted to confer with her.

Following this meeting you want them to put in writing their proposals so you have something formal to address - what they are doing is not fair, its like having the sword of Damocles hanging over her

Jane x

[ken100464]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Could I ask a question out of interest here.

If a requirement is the ability to be able to conduct restraint would this be a health and safety issue and the employer has a duty of care to the employee not to put them in the position where they might endanger themselves or others?

As the use of restraint cannot be forwarned as the patient wont do things to a plan then it would be something they would have to have the ability to do all the time at a moments notice.

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Exactly Ken, that's why its important to establish the size of the team around Malamute's mum. If she was lone working then they could say they couldn't accommodate the reduced duties - if she is working within an environment that there is a number of staff on duty at one time one would assume that there would be emergency call systems that she could use to alert appropriate people and then take over lighter duties someone else was involved in before the emergency occurred.

Jane x

[SA Gold]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Told you she was good didn't I?

Jane sure is
Best of luck to your Mum with this Mal

[malamute]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Exactly Ken, that's why its important to establish the size of the team around Malamute's mum. If she was lone working then they could say they couldn't accommodate the reduced duties - if she is working within an environment that there is a number of staff on duty at one time one would assume that there would be emergency call systems that she could use to alert appropriate people and then take over lighter duties someone else was involved in before the emergency occurred.

Jane x

Exactly they're making out she's a burden and risk to those around her - which is a tad extreme.

They referred to Health and Safety in the meeting then quizzed my mum last time about how she moves around at home doing household chores.

As it stand at the moment HR have advised my mum that her "redeployment options are under review" and my mum has to phone her mgr weekly to keep her up todate with mum's "situation."

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

Told you she was good didn't I?

Oh indeed - so glad she has decided to stay around and help you guys

People never really associate employment issues with debt but you know what, just cos somebody may be in debt doesn't mean they don't have other issues going on in their lives hence it's always good to have different people with different levels of expertise around to offer help as and when they can.

Look at Missy, he's chasing me for the highest post count

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

If your mum really feels that she wants to get back to work I would send the below (obviously with the details you have in the bits I have highlighted) to the HR department and her Manager and force their hand. She needs to take control and direct them the way she wants to go -

Dear

Further to our recent meetings with regards to my phased return to work following the incident and subsequent injury on ************.

As you will be aware, I have been signed off work, firstly on the grounds of sickness and more latterly on “special leave” since …………. Having undergone 3 separate occupational health reviews and numerous meetings with my Manager I am now in a position to return to work with only a slight reduction in my duties as detailed by my fitness to work certificate. The only adjustment to my full time role is that for the time being I would be unable to take an active part in the restraint process should that become necessary.

As this is a very small part of my role (I believe that there has only been one incident that has resulted in restraint within the past 18 months) and following a risk assessment to highlight a mutually beneficial procedure for the patient, the company and myself should a situation arise I believe I would be ready to return to work immediately. I do not work in a lone working environment, and I believe that a process could easily be put in place to accommodate this small restriction in my working practice and the safety of all concerned, I would be happy to discuss the requirements with my manager upon my first day back in the workplace.

With the above in mind I would like to arrange a meeting with both HR and my immediate manager, at which time I will be accompanied by ********* to discuss a suitable return to work date.

I look forward to your suggested meeting date as a matter of urgency.

Kind regards

Send it off and see what their response is - that's what I would be doing if it was my mum (god help them if they tried!) and I would attend the meeting with her so put your name in. Let's see what they come up with when they are presented with the facts.

Jane x

[oscar]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

WOW!!

And there was me thinking that it was only the financial sector that tried to fuck you up the arse!!

Pity I cant rewind the clock a couple of years!

[tastyjane]

Re: Long Term Sick and HR issue

How's your mum Malamute?

Jane x