BlackHorse default May 2005

[xboxer]

Bit of an old one but only discovered it after a SAR a couple of months ago.

There is a bit of a back story to why I fell into arrears and didn't respond that I'll try and post later.



Not to sure when I would of received it apart from May 2005.

Arrears are asking for March and Aprils payments but missing Mays which would of been due.

The address is correct.

Then got a second default notice 2 days later (saturday) same format same amount.

Then got a third default notice 6 days later (friday) same format same amount.

Finally got a fourth default dated the 13th October 2005, giving me to the 24th October 2005 to pay arrears now £1371.58 (octobers payment not included). Outstanding balance £4512.33.

Issued court proceeding in NOV 05,won got CCJ, then they went for charging order,won and got paid in full in March 06 (£5000 ish)

thanks in advance

[IF]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Hi xboxer and Welcome, sorry I you haven't received any replies at the present but help will be on the way.

Best wishes
If...x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Hiya

Just bumping back up. I'll pop in tonight and read this - hopefully Paul or one of the others will be around to help.

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Ok thanks, as soon as I get the chance I'll post some more of the SAR results up, quite a few other mistakes as well!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Oooh please do - more info is good

Can I ask you to read user guides, uploading images to your message as we don't use 3rd party hosting links such as imageshack. It's best to load the image into your message. please edit post 1 and add your upload directly to the post.

Thanks mate

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Ahh linky here:---> User Guide - How Do I add Attachments to my Message? - allaboutFORUMS

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Ok post #1 has been edited! :-)

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

A bit more info as promised. I think this is relevant to the default but if I have posted in the wrong area I apologise

All of the below in blue is information I have gathered from my SAR due to not being aware of this happening at the time.

I had not been in touch with BH at point during this.

My March 05 direct debt payment was missed due to a banking error. It was then tried again a week later and failed. Black Horse then cancelled the direct debt mandate.

No payments or contact from me was being made.

In the second week of May 05 I received a default notice served under S87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 giving me 11 days from the date of the letter to pay the arrears or BH would exercise there right to reclaim the outstanding amount and interest. I also received a letter saying I owed an additional £25 penalty charge.

Then 2 days later I received ANOTHER default exactly the same as the first asking for the same amount. The only difference was the dates had changed and got another letter telling me about the default charge owed.

Then 6 days later I received YET ANOTHER default exactly the same as the first asking for the same amount. Again the only difference was the dates had changed and got yet another letter telling me about the default charge owed.

Then nothing until October 05 I received my FOURTH default this time asking for about £979.9 more than the previous defaults and again giving me 11 days to pay. Also received a letter stating I now owed £175 in charges.



Then in the second week of November 05 I received a court summons for a hearing in the second week in December 05.

At some point in November 05 my house was repossessed due to the banking error. As stated before this was the first I was aware of anything happening.

As I was not aware of this I did not attend and BH was awarded the amount asked for including costs and penalty fees.

The judgement was for the total amount payable within 7 days.

Then in January 06 BH applied for an interim charging order (again unchallenged) and was awarded this.

At the beginning of February my house was sold but was told I had to wait on the funds due to a charging order being placed upon it. This was the first time I became aware of a problem with BH.

Then in February 06 they wrote to my mortgage company to be paid. My mortgage company asked them for the Final Charging Order.

At the beginning of March 06 the Final Charging Order was granted.

My mortgage company released the amount left over from the sale of my house to me minus the charging order towards the beginning of March 06.

Then in May 06 BH applied to the Land Registry for a Cancellation of Entry.

Right now time for the irregularities:

1. I received 4 defaults on the account. I thought you could only receive one. The 4th default (October) is the one registered on my credit file.

The amount on the first default equates to March and April's payments BUT May's payment date had passed so would I have still been in arrears if I had paid?

2. With the Interim Charging Order in the main body of text where the order is described they have wrote it was awarded in Jan 05 where it actually states elsewhere in the document that it was Jan 06. This has also been stamped by the courts and witnessed by a solicitor!!!

3. BH waited until May 06 to drop the registered charge even though they were paid in March 06.

4. The Land Registry actually rejected the application made by BH to remove the entry due to BH putting the wrong address on Form DS1.

5. The satisfaction date of the CCJ shows May 06 on my credit file but I was told by SCM (BH's solicitors) that the charging order was released in March 06.

So my thinking is with the defaults I should looking at the first one being issued as the one they could legally claim on and should of based all their actions upon? If so then the only reason I can think of by issuing further defaults is to increase the amount they were seeking.

With the additional penalty charges and interest they have charged after the first default/deadline can I claim that back?

Would the Interim Charging Order have still been valid even with the date being wrong?

What kind of recourse can I expect from BH delaying the satisfaction date of the CCJ?

Thanks for staying till the end of this epic post! Lol

All suggestions welcome.

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Just double checked and the default is actually recorded as September?!?



Also the payment history is wrong too!

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Morning all,

From what I have read and previously posted on another forum, I take it that the default is bad as I wasn't given the right amount of time to rectify and the arrears amount wasn't the right amount to bring me upto date.

As Blackhorse will in most probability retrospectively quote the Brandon judgement if I complain about the date being wrong and they terminated my agreement after the date stated.
I understand they can do this but can not enforce without a compliant default notice, which in my case they most definitely did.

It’s at this point that I'm not sure about what I should be seeking?

Should I state the fact of the arrears amount not being correct making the DN faulty?

Without wanting to be devils advocate on myself, could BH argue that the arrears amount was correct due to when the DN was issued that month's payment was only late and technically not in arrears? I am hoping this is not the case.
Although reading through the T & C's that came with my SAR it states;

5 DEFAULT BY YOU
5.1 If any Total Monthly Repayment is not paid by its due date then we may serve on you a default notice. If you fail to comply with the notice the balance outstanding on the Account at that time together with the sum calculated in accordance with the provisions of clause 7.1.2 shall become due and payable immediately.

On my agreement the due date was the 6th of every month. The first default notice was dated the 12th. So that month's payment was also due but not included in the amount asked for.

Additionally as far as I'm aware (and there wasn't one in my SAR) I received no termination notice.
Is it a case of the line in my default notices "If you do not pay the arrears by that date this notice is to be treated as our demand for payment of the balance", act as the termination notice?

Also regardless of how many default notices sent, should the date the default is recorded on my credit file be the date of the first default?

If it is definitely a case of enforcement from a faulty DN what kind of redress should I be looking for?

I apologise for all the questions but want to be sure in my own mind on what grounds in arguing on.

I am currently challenging them over the wrong satisfaction date of the CCJ, PPI and penalty charges on this account and would love to hit them with something else.

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Hi,

Just wondering if someone can have a read through what I've posted so far on this thread to make sure I'm thinking along the right lines!

I'm expecting BH's next response imminently and want to ready my reply.

Thanks in advance

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

With regards to the date of the default being recorded with the CRAs, should I be quoting the following to BH?

ICO - Technical Guidance Note - Filing defaults with credit reference agencies

The date of default
31 The date of default recorded on the file should be the date on which a decision to file a default becomes effective according to the criteria discussed in paragraphs 9 to 16. If a notice of intention to file a default is served (see paragraphs 32 to 37), the default date should be the date the notice becomes effective. When a default is filed after a genuine and agreed variation in payment schedule has broken down, it should record the date of that breakdown subject to the conditions described in paragraph 21.

If so that would mean the date of the 23rd May 2005 (the first default notice) should be the date recorded, which in turn would make the default and possibly the account drop of my credit file?

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Hi all, have just gone through my SAR results again and definitely NO termination letter.

They went from the fourth default to issuing a claim on 07 Nov 05, stating on the claim form that I had been served a default, given 20 days to pay, failed to rectify so now seeking the outstanding balance of the account.

As previously stated was only given 11 days from date of letter, should of been 7 days from service at that time and certainly not the 20 days on the claim form!

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Hi all, me again lol.

Ok I've just had another thought with regards to the DN's and that is the outstanding balance and the arrears included mis sold PPI (was told it was compulsory and still included PPI from 2 previous consolidated loans)

So the way I see (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the DN was bad on the following grounds;

1. Was not given enough time to rectify, 6 days IF sent by first class.
2 The arrears being asked for did not state enough to bring me back up to date.
3 The arrears included mis sold PPI premiums.

[xboxer]

Re: BlackHorse default May 2005

Hi all, thought I would update with my partial victory so far.

I had wrote to bh last month detailing parts of the above and received a standard template response. So I sent an email to Lloyds ceo with a PDF showing the defaults and incorrect recording with the cra's.

Then I got a letter from a bh exec who was investigating my complaint.

Well today I got my response.

Long story short, no refund of penalty charges or interest charged after first default because in went to court and judge agreed with bh.(in truth it was undefended as I knew nothing about it and in most probability the judge wouldn't of been given the full details.)

They apparently don't have records of the first 3 defaults as it was more than 5 years since the close of the account but the 4 default was issued on the 13th October was right with the amount being asked for (bh sent me the records of the defaults are they now saying they have disappeared?)

Having checked the default date and satisfaction date of the ccj, they have found I am correct and have contacted the cra's to have all records of this account removed.(now call me cynical but they haven't mentioned exactly what records, a ccj is public info so would think they can't get that removed and if the default date is rectified it would disappear anyway!)

As I say I think I may have had a partial victory of sorts but where's my compo and refund?

I will be penning a response and dropping the enforcing-on-an-agreement-terminated-by-a-bad-default bombshell :-)