OH Car Loan

[billytommo]

Quick question: OH got a car 4 years ago and has paid the monthly each month without fail, approx £100. As the last payment became nearer I asked her to check and make sure it was the last one. It was then that I noticed that there was an extra fee for completion, approx £200. As she is currently out of work so I advised her to cancel the DD and I would look to sort it out within the month. She has got letters from the finance company, being charged at £35 a time, and now the latest letter show the outstanding balance as approx £550. Obviously I have no problem with the last payment and even the completion fee because it is in the small print but I wonder where I stand with the £250 they trying to rip her off for? I don't mind paying a bit for trying to buy a bit of time, but £250 in about 6 weeks! Any ideas?

[mgfboy]

Re: OH Car Loan

do they show how the extra is made up?

[billytommo]

Re: OH Car Loan

They just keep saying "This letter has cost you £35" or words to that effect !!!

[vossy]

Re: OH Car Loan

You should write back telling them that your time and effort into replying to them is costing them £50 a time and do they want to play?

[jen_br]

Re: OH Car Loan

Can you give me some details about this...

Firstly who the finance company is?

Secondly - pending on first one you can be charged for cancelling your DD.

I need more info before I can comment.

[gravytrain]

Re: OH Car Loan

Yes as said it would be good to have more detail.

It is standard practice to charge a purchase fee along with the last payment on a HP agreement which is probably what your £200 is.

The default and letter charges should be itemized within your agreement, these can be challenged as unfair.

I would write to them offering them the balance of the sums due under the contract(if you have it,(last payment + purchase fee)) and say that the charges are unfair, offer the amount as full and final settlement of the account.

[billytommo]

Re: OH Car Loan

Cheers, I'll look later. Like I say, it's my OH's agreement so I'll have to get all of the details when I get back. Thanks

[billytommo]

Re: OH Car Loan

Right, just got in and got all of the details to hand:

Final monthly payment of £125.96 due
Option to purchase fee of £299 due with final payment
Figure comes to £424.96

Finance company started out to be Carlyle Finance which changed, in name only I think, to MotoNovo finance. They have sent 3 or 4 chasing letters stating that there has been a charge each time. Now a letter headed 'Anglia' states that £560.49 is owed. It does state on the agreement that the charge for a default letter is £35. That times the four letters adds up to the figure. But, if it is a default letter, can they send it four times and charge you each time?

TIA!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: OH Car Loan

Final monthly payment of £125.96 due
Option to purchase fee of £299 due with final payment
Figure comes to £424.96

Finance company started out to be Carlyle Finance which changed, in name only I think, to MotoNovo finance.

Indeed - they are the same bunch of shonky, South Efrican shits whose Licence details I have appended.

They have sent 3 or 4 chasing letters stating that there has been a charge each time. Now a letter headed 'Anglia' states that £560.49 is owed. It does state on the agreement that the charge for a default letter is £35. That times the four letters adds up to the figure. But, if it is a default letter, can they send it four times and charge you each time?

Under s86B (link) or s86E (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, they are not permitted to charge even once!

Under s86B (2)(a)- notice of sums in arrears - they are not permitted to send such a notice more frequently than every six months.

This is not a new law, despite it having been inserted by the Consumer Credit Act 2006 - this law applied when they first got their Licence in 2008.

There are other oddities. According to MotorTrader.com (link) their CEO is a jolly, bald-headed bloke by the name of Mark Standish, whose name seems most curiously absent from their Consumer Credit Licence; I was not aware that there was a tick box for "no publicity". The same article states that their parent company (pedantically, their "parent parent" company, which I took to be the work of a poor profo reader) is WesBank, a company completely unknown both to the OFT and Companies House. Finally, the Motor Trader article and the company's own website both give their place of business as Cardiff; this is a bit odd, as both Companies House and the OFT seem to think the company is based in Johannesburg or in London.

[gravytrain]

Re: OH Car Loan

Sorry CC the sections quoted are notices of arrears not default notices, there is nothing within the act that says the creditor cannot add letter or default charges to a delinquent account if they are itemized within the agreement.

They are challengable under the UTCCs and under common law as they do not represent a true estimate of the costs incurred.

I think that if the OP offers to settle by paying the sums due under the contract they will.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: OH Car Loan

Sorry CC the sections quoted are notices of arrears not default notices, there is nothing within the act that says the creditor cannot add letter or default charges to a delinquent account if they are itemized within the agreement.

They are challengable under the UTCCs and under common law as they do not represent a true estimate of the costs incurred.

I think that if the OP offers to settle by paying the sums due under the contract they will.

They might, or they might continue to play at Silly Buggers.

I regret not having "shewn all my working" in the previous posting. I will now attempt to remedy that defect.

The last letter was apparently from a company called Anglia something-or-other, which presumably means that it has either been sent to a DCA for collection or absolutely assigned to another company; either way, a default notice would first need to have been issued pursuant to section 87 (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (also read s88 and s89).

What could those "letters" have been, if not notices of sums in arrears and at least one notice of default sums as defined by (link) s187A? It may be possible that a court would decide that the "letters" were not notices at all, in which case s86D (link) or s86E(5) (link) should surely apply and the creditor could not enforce the agreement (nor could any assignee collect the debt) until such a notice had been issued. If, however, the letters were notices such as would need to have been issued to enforce the agreement, no charge may lawfully be made for the preparation or sending of such notices.

[gravytrain]

Re: OH Car Loan

They might, or they might continue to play at Silly Buggers.

I regret not having "shewn all my working" in the previous posting. I will now attempt to remedy that defect.

The last letter was apparently from a company called Anglia something-or-other, which presumably means that it has either been sent to a DCA for collection or absolutely assigned to another company; either way, a default notice would first need to have been issued pursuant to section 87 (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (also read s88 and s89).

What could those "letters" have been, if not notices of sums in arrears and at least one notice of default sums as defined by (link) s187A? It may be possible that a court would decide that the "letters" were not notices at all, in which case s86D (link) or s86E(5) (link) should surely apply and the creditor could not enforce the agreement (nor could any assignee collect the debt) until such a notice had been issued. If, however, the letters were notices such as would need to have been issued to enforce the agreement, no charge may lawfully be made for the preparation or sending of such notices.

The requirements of the section quoted only refer to notices issued under that section, there is nothing to say that the creditor cannot send letters and and notices, they do it all the time.

As to what would those letters be, well they could be anything, they could be letters saying that if you do not pay we will send you a default notice, they could be saying you are in arrears in breach of section xx of your agreement, really anything the want them to say.

You can contest them but they are not unlawful under the CCA.

Default charges do however have to be itemized within the agreement section 22(schedule 1) of the agreement regulations (I think), they usually are if you look.

[gravytrain]

Re: OH Car Loan

(2)The creditor or owner—
(a)shall, within the period of 14 days beginning with the day on which the conditions mentioned in subsection (1) are satisfied, give the debtor or hirer a notice under this section; and
(b)after the giving of that notice, shall give him further notices under this section at intervals of not more than six months.

To illustrate from your link.

It would be nice if you were right in this , all those letter charges that PDL's levy would be illegal, sadly it is not the case

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: OH Car Loan

OK, have it your own way. I cannot be bothered to discuss it with you any longer.

Have you also got excuses for the apparent oddities I spotted, or do those exceed your scope as an (amateur?) apologist?

[gravytrain]

Re: OH Car Loan

OK, have it your own way. I cannot be bothered to discuss it with you any longer.

Have you also got excuses for the apparent oddities I spotted, or do those exceed your scope as an (amateur?) apologist?

Not sure what you mean here, but i presume it is supposed to be humorous

Not my way, the section you quote is designed to ensure that these notices are sent out, not to sanction creditors for sending excess or chargeable notices.