Dead Eggs

[ken100464]

Just a bit of general info that I have gleaned while trawling the seedier joints of the internet while reseaching our own accounts.

The facts first. As everyone knows live Egg cards went to Barcraps and live loans and mortgages went to Yorkie Bank.

All the dead Eggs remained in Derby while everyone wondered what to do with them. The Derby site is either closed or there is one janitor and a cat left

I started my journey with our dead egg in the summer and got my Sar dated 31st July 2012. This came from Derby. Sadly there was no CCA in the SAR. That was ok because I was unaware of AAD or anything really.

Anyway while researching my dead egg it now seems it is being dealt with Canada Square Operations in Worthing an offshoot of Citi who of course had egg before.

And here is the interesting thing forums are starting to report not being able to get diddly squat out of them re the accounts other than the account number. They are even quoting them replying that there is no need to keep a CCA on a dead egg and wont divulge them.

CCA requests to DCA's with dead eggs are being met with silence.

Being someone who likes to think beyond it seems like Canada Square might have taken the decision to lose as much as it can and thus head off SAR's for PPI's. These are being reported as rejected too. So get shut of the liabilities but inadvertantly got shut of the CCA's too.

Bit like pass the parcel now these dead eggs. Whoever is left with them will be gettin a bit of a whiff from them.

The Sars and CCA requests that are being rejected seem to be from late summer onwards.

Maybe ours was the last out the door as I have not seen one later than July.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dead Eggs

Odd this...I've a dead Egg Loan and Card..loan's with Arrow Global and card's with Barclaycard.
The latter sent an NOA and nothing since. The former fell foul of a CCA request, only able to supply the agreement but no T&C's, so both are in limbo.

Let's hope there was a massive bonfire in Derby....

[ken100464]

Re: Dead Eggs

Are you then saying the bad eggs have been left in limbo and not bought by Barcraps?

Thats what the internet chatter seems to be saying.

Yesterday we did have a letter from FOS about our dead egg charges and on it they stated it was Canada Square Outfit not Egg that they were talking too over it.

The account defaulted in 2009 and sold to a DCA in 2010. The DCA is not replying to CCA requests again from chatter on the net and indeed is just about to get the second letter from us on Monday as it has signed for our request but not cashed the cheque or replied.

So as to your bad egg am unsure as you seem to think Barcraps have NOA you. Maybe they returned you to the Derby Nest when they found out you werent paying? As in a sale or return basis? but forgot to tell you?

[ken100464]

Re: Dead Eggs

Odd this...I've a dead Egg Loan and Card..loan's with Arrow Global and card's with Barclaycard.
The latter sent an NOA and nothing since. The former fell foul of a CCA request, only able to supply the agreement but no T&C's, so both are in limbo.

Let's hope there was a massive bonfire in Derby....

Maybe like FP there was a sale and return policy with Barcraps.? Just they forgot the returns bit. Barcraps work out your not playing ball so say stuff this have it back. We got enough of our own crap to deal with

And Egg staff knowing they were out of a job just couldnt be bothered with all this stuff or perhaps a corporate decision was taken to lose the liabilties but in doing so have lost all the other stuff too?

Dunno for sure just a bit of internet chatter going on about lack of documents appearing. But if you weed it out its the dead eggs causing the problems not live ones.

Just thought as I have seen so many on here it was worth a mention.

[vossy]

Re: Dead Eggs

Yep could be, I have a ex Egg card with a balance of over £5k, requested a CCA vis crapquest and barcrap came back with no documents so no enforcement but someone will chase you for it - yeah yeah whatever, seems that barcrap do not have a lot of egg stuff lying about at all, a case of egg on their faces then!

[ken100464]

Re: Dead Eggs

After I read you post again thats what I thought a generic email sent to anyone and everyone.

But maybe for you it didnt actually happen and the bad egg never went and is in the same pot as ours. (well not quite we are with a DCA)

Obviously sleeping dogs are a good option but always good to have background info.

Egg/Citi/Canada Square or whoever they are now perhaps made the decision the PPI liabilities are more than the debts outstanding on this stuff.

And to be fair the biggest noise on the net is coming from the PPI claimers not being able to get the evidence for the dead certain PPI on these accounts.

As you say if yours has stacks of PPI on it maybe they took the commercial decision to put it in the garbage. But by telling you the consumer wouldnt be good form as we would all want some. So they just swept it under the carpet.

Its all like a big dirty secret aint it

[SXGuy]

Re: Dead Eggs

Seems your prob right with this.

My mother got a letter from barcraps just saying they had bought the bad egg and to change the direct debit payments to their new details, we didnt, and left it.

We got 1 phone call asking to speak to my late father and that was it.

We did CCA them and they eventually admitted no enforcement, and barcraps closed the account. Last we ever heard.

[ken100464]

Re: Dead Eggs

This is the letter coming out of Canada Square re SAR's and CCA requests.

Interesting they are seemingly washing their hands of it all.




Dear Sir

Thank you for your recent request for an executed copy of the credit agreement for account number XXXXXXXX with Canada Square Operations (formerly known as Egg Banking plc) under section 77 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As the account you refer to is now closed I have to inform you that Canada Square Operations are under no obligation to comply with a request for a copy of the executed agreement under the CCA as we no longer have a contractual relationship relating to this account, nor are we seeking to enforce any agreement on the account.

The right to be provided with this information from Canada Square Operations ended with the closure of this account.

Section 77 (3) (a) of the CCA states that section 77 (1) does not apply where 'no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor.' The right to request an executed copy of an agreement is found in part VI of the Act, which is entitled 'Matters arising during currency of credit or hire agreements'; so where an agreement is no longer current the right to request or be provided with a copy of the executed agreement therefore ceases.

Yours sincerely

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dead Eggs

Curiouser and curiouser...
More digging needed methinks...(pass me the spade, I've got £12K at stake!)

This is what they're saying on their tinterwebsite : Citibank UK - Feedback and complaints

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dead Eggs

A bit of background (dated December 2008)

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) has fined Egg Banking plc £721,000 for serious failings in its sales of credit card payment protection insurance (PPI).

The FSA found failings in approximately 40 per cent of telephone sales of credit card PPI made by Egg between January 2005 and December 2007. Egg sold PPI either when receiving a customer services call, or when making a sales call to a new customer. When Egg customers said they did not want PPI on their credit cards, the firm directed its sales staff to use techniques to persuade the customer to take the insurance - called 'objection handling'.

These techniques included over-emphasising the positive features of the PPI, or telling the customer they could take the PPI for a free period and cancel it later if they did not want it. In some cases, even when the customer did not consent, PPI was applied to their credit card anyway.

In addition, in a significant number of cases Egg failed to obtain clear consent from customers to receive only limited information about the PPI during the telephone sale. Egg will write to customers asking them to call a dedicated number if they have any concerns about the policy or the way it was sold to them and compensate them where appropriate - by way of illustration, Egg is expected to pay £1.67 million for every 10% of customers who receive a refund.

FSA Director of Enforcement Margaret Cole said:

"Egg used inappropriate sales techniques to try to persuade customers to buy payment protection insurance on their credit card even when they asserted they did not want the cover. All firms must ensure that customers are treated fairly when selling PPI and if a customer does not want PPI, they should not be pressured into taking it.

"We will continue to fine firms where we find PPI failings. It is unacceptable that Egg did not identify the problems with its sales processes despite a series of high profile FSA communications on PPI, including earlier fines on other firms. Egg stopped telephone sales of credit card PPI in December 2007, and has agreed to write to customers and pay a full refund plus interest where appropriate. Egg is likely to pay substantial compensation as a result of this exercise."

The FSA has taken into account Egg's customer contact exercise and commitment to compensate customers where appropriate and has significantly reduced the level of penalty which it would otherwise have imposed on the firm. Egg also qualified for a 30 per cent discount under the FSA's executive settlement procedures by agreeing to settle at an early stage of the investigation. Without this discount the fine would have been £1.03 million.

Notes to editors
Egg Banking plc is an online bank based in Derby, which was acquired by Citibank NA on 1 May 2007. The Final Notice for the firm includes the background to the case, the regulatory requirements contravened and the factors taken into account when settling the level of the fine. The Final Notice also contains the agreed forms of letter to be used in Egg's customer contact exercise.
Egg sold over 106,000 credit card PPI policies at an average cost of £156. Egg sold PPI on a 'non-advised' basis which means that the firm should provide information about the PPI on offer, but should not recommend the policy as suitable for particular customers.
The FSA has previously taken action against 19 firms over poor PPI selling practices. The FSA's thematic work on the sale of PPI published in September 2007 found improvements in some areas, but also that many firms selling this insurance were still failing to treat their customers fairly. The FSA introduced additional rules in its Insurance Conduct of Business Rulebook in January 2008 designed to improve PPI selling practices.
At the end of September 2008, FSA published an update on its review of the sale of PPI. The update outlined the high-level findings from FSA's mystery shopping programme and the next steps. In light of the findings, the FSA announced its escalation of regulatory intervention. The FSA is considering the appropriate action to deal with ongoing non-compliant sales practices and non-compliant past sales.
To help consumers make informed decisions, the FSA's consumer pages - Moneymadeclear - include questions that people should ask themselves before taking out PPI and a new comparative information table for PPI.
The FSA regulates the financial services industry and has four objectives under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000: maintaining market confidence; promoting public understanding of the financial system; securing the appropriate degree of protection for consumers; and fighting financial crime.
The FSA aims to promote efficient, orderly and fair markets, help retail consumers achieve a fair deal and improve its business capability and effectiveness.

Source: Egg fined £721,000 and will compensate PPI customers

[ken100464]

Re: Dead Eggs

Makes sense to me.

If someone is claiming off you and they dont have the evidence and you have inadvertently done something with the evidence that they would need to rely on to do said claim.

And a company disposal gives you the ideal time to be creative with your shredder. Then blame the people who are now on the dole for being overzealous with what they shredded including the log of the shredding.

If they have stuck religiously to the 6 years timetable then they would be up to Nov 2006 inception dates.

No CCA or coms log then no proof of what happened and therefore PPI reclaimers hit a brick wall.

If Egg/Citi/Canada Square are out of cards altogether they dont need this info for anything other than allowing someone to claim off them and maybe the authorities.

So they could say its good DPA to be deleting stuff as your not supposed to keep it beyond there being a use for it.

But for us here its the loss of the CCA thats interesting

[ken100464]

Re: Dead Eggs

Yeah it makes di/turbomans job harder for sure but as I dont have PPI on my dead one then having it go UE would be a welcome surprise indeed.

And the charges claim with FOS we have no great positive feeling about. So dont sit right with a debt full of charges sold for peanuts but being hounded for it all.

So as they say many different ways to have egg.

[SA Gold]

Re: Dead Eggs

Seems your prob right with this.

My mother got a letter from barcraps just saying they had bought the bad egg and to change the direct debit payments to their new details, we didnt, and left it.

We got 1 phone call asking to speak to my late father and that was it.

We did CCA them and they eventually admitted no enforcement, and barcraps closed the account. Last we ever heard.

Fingers crossed ill never hear anything then - heard nothing after they admitted they can't enforce

[vossy]

Re: Dead Eggs

Fingers crossed ill never hear anything then - heard nothing after they admitted they can't enforce

I am hoping so too

[SA Gold]

Re: Dead Eggs

I am hoping so too

Fingers crossed for both of us mate