MKDP? Nationwide current account

[Pat]

I would value any opinions please

Nationwide current account that had some working tax credits paid into it incorrectly (i.e not for me). I spent the money total £332.96 , nationwide then took the money out plunging me into overdraft. For the next few months they charged me £20 a month +_interest total £74.6 . I then started making payments, the current balance is 218.55 so by my calculations I have paid back £190 (more than I thought TBH)

On 7th July 2009 they issued what I think is a defective DN.
Date 7th July
provision breached -going into OD and failing to bring it back
Action required repay the OD in full (no amount) and return all cards , cheques etc
date required 21st July

Anyway they have sold it to MKDP and I sent a letter (OD 1 letter) . After several months I have had a reply with statements, copy of DN etc

Obviously they want their money but I am not working
As I see it my options are
1) pay the full amount outstanding £218.55 (not happening)
2) Make an offer of about £143 ( 332 -190 already paid) -not really an option but possible
3) Make a lower F&F say £20 but going up to say £50 , can be done
4) Write back saying sod off , the DN is defective and you are screwed or polite words to that effect
5) Ignore totally


I would appreciate some opinions as to what you would do although I realise that the decision is mine and mine alone

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

why did they remove the money after it had been paid in? Was it because the JC+ recalled the payment?

[Pat]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

If I recall correctly I had a letter saying that it had been credited in error and would be removed . I do not have that letter or indeed the statements from that time (other than the ones MKDP have sent me). These were the bad old days

What has confused me recently are the press reported cases where people sent money to the wrong bank accounts and have had difficulty getting it back, of course I know the DWP are a law unto themselves (as are most government departments )

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

Right, the DWP (& employers etc) can recall payments from the bank but I didn't think the bank could cause you financial distress as a result. What I mean is if the DWP tried to recall it within the same banking day but you'd spent it the same day then really your options are limited. If however they credited it and recalled it several days later then your bank should have refused the recall due to insufficient funds and the DWP (or whoever) would then chase you directly.

Can you clarify in response to the question examples above please then it'll allow us to answer properly.

Keeping money you know isn't yours (not you - press articles) is technically theft so be careful arguing that - but in your case it's easier to state the truth that you thought you were entitled, spent it, learned you weren't entitled.

[Pat]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

Going by the bank statements that MKDP sent me the credits were 11th 12th 19th 26th May . The bank account was one that I had opened to keep my float money from work separate to other money . When I checked the balance on a whim one day and found a balance of £334 my assumption was that it was the float money (the float was originally £400) . As I said it was the bad old days so it was spent pretty sharpish.
On 10th June there are 4 transfers to a reference 0100/SUNDRIES each one that matches up to an inward payment . This took me £333.95 overdrawn. Although I knew by then that the money was not mine it was too late as it had gone and I didn't have the funds to repay it. My suspicion is that the bank took the money and paid it into another account belonging to the intended recipient. This is of course sometime ago so the exact memories are somewhat hazy, I usually have difficulty remembering what I did yesterday let alone 5 1/2 years ago-a time of my life that was not good. The one thing I will say is that there was no intention to deceive/steal or anything else untowards, at that time i was even in a DMP

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

When did you last pay into the account mate?

[Pat]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

I will have to check back but probably April 2012 so still some time to go

[PlanB]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

Has this account been previously escalated to MKRR, Raven Recoveries and/or Keynes yet, or has it stayed with MKDP since they bought it?

I'm just trying to gauge the sense of urgency (or not) so you can avoid a claim. Did that last MKDP letter threaten anything?

Plan B x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

I will have to check back but probably April 2012 so still some time to go

I wasn't thinking SB - I was trying to work out usage versus the problem - let me have a wee think, back later

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

Briefly,

You need to read up on the BACS Direct Credit Recall Period - maybe call BACS for definitive answer but from my reading it suggests that there is a cut-off period for recalling BACS Direct Credit Payments (which the DWP used to pay you) - the guidelines suggest the same day - http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/fi...nt_2011_v2.pdf

The Bacs scheme does not permit any corrections to payments, although individual recall requests are permitted up to 3.30pm, between member banks, on the business day prior to settlement day. Payments that are correctly executed by the payee’s PSP are available to the payee immediately after crediting.

However reading BACS main site, it doesn't state the exact timings and cut-off periods for recalling the payment.

--> http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesse...ngStarted.aspx

As the payer, you remain in control of the process at all times. You decide when each payment will be made. You can submit Bacs Direct Credit payment instructions up to 30 days in advance of the payment date. You can also recall payments after the payment information has been submitted, provided your bank is notified prior to a specific cut off time.

My point is I think the bank screwed up paying back the payment. They ought to have refused and left you to deal with the DWP directly - the fact it made you go OD and then into financial hardship as well as accruing charges makes me think you have good grounds for write-off based on the banks mistakes. It may mean utilising the FOS but for now, you need to discretely find out how long a BACS Direct Credit can be recalled (the cut-off point) - if it is indeed the same day as payment was credited then you will win via the FOS as the bank had no legal right to reverse the transactions.

Good luck.

[Pat]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

Hi Plan B
When it was first bought it went straight to MKRR however I wrote back straight away with a combination letter of no telephone calls , prove it etc. This was ignored until I sent it again for a 2nd time, you know the sort of thing I respectfully refer you to my letter of XXXX a copy is enclosed. It then went straight back to MKDP.

Niddy, thanks for the info, just one question
If I do make the complaint would that be to Nationwide or MKDP. I can see arguments for both although as assignees MKDP have taken on all the rights responsibilities and duties haven' they

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

You'd complain to the OC but copy in the DCA. Your argument centres around the fact the bank should never have applied the recall (as they had no legal right to) coupled with the fact the whole account is charges so they should retrospectively reverse everything putting you back in the original position with any derogatory markers held at CRA's removed in their entirety.

Throughout assignment there's always a clause for Recourse - in case of such complex queries. In this instance you go direct to the bank but copy in the dca. The dca would literally recourse back to OC if you go direct to them.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

obviously the dca should get a cover letter saying "see attached as sent to the OC. Please note that subject to normal recourse guidelines, and whilst the OC deals with my complaint I suggest you cease all collection activity forthwith until such time the OC clarifies their position. I am disputing 100% of the alleged amount claimed as you can see from the copy letter attached."

kinda thing

[Pat]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

Thanks Niddy
I have called BACS and asked a very general question about getting payments recalled. The answer was talk to your bank and it would vary on a number of things, one of which is the availability of the funds . I will get those letters written ASAP as will let you know if and when I get a reply (which will no doubt be sometime by next Christmas)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: MKDP? Nationwide current account

There's your answer. They're not allowed to make you OD. They've screwed up