Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

[Ruthus]

Hi All

I had a "Together Mortgage" with northern rock. The property was sold in dec 2014 leaving £16k for the unsecured loan. The loan was in my mine and my ex partners name (he who had not paid anything for years and left it down to me) I wrote to Northern Rock offering them £8k for my part of the loan or to separate the loan to two separate loans - i heard nothing back. Had no correspondence regarding the unsecured loan so just carried on with life.
My credit rating was good - i was able to get credit cards. last month i received a letter from a solicitors company acting on behalf of NR wanting the money - they claim of have written to both parties but as my ex will just ignore them it will fall down to me. I wrote to them
I am of the opinion that if the unsecured element could not stand alone it would have been incumbent on your client to ensure that the entire account was settled during the mortgage redemption process. However, I remain fully committed to repaying the unsecured element within a personal loan framework with the proviso that any adverse information supplied to credit reference agencies by your client be withdrawn.
They responded that the account is in arrears and they refuse to my above terms.
Not sure what i am asking here but is there anything i can do regarding keeping a good credit rating as my new partner and i are currently looking at house to get a mortgages and i feel this will hinder me - i know NR are incompetent and wondered if they are at fault here

Thanks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

NR haven't really done anything wrong here from what you say.

To clarify a joint account means joint and equally liable so they would never split the debt into two as they'd then need both of you to sign new agreements and such like - so the way it works is that whoever they catch first will get hassled for the full amount - as you're the one making contact / offers to them they'll obviously chase and harass you and damage your credit file. The ex is doing the best thing by disappearing, weirdly.

What you *could* do is try and agree a settlement figure for the remaining balance; so if you're saying there is £16k outstanding why not make a single F&F offer for settlement of around £10k and see if they bite? Obviously that is the only way to preserve your credit file other than maintaining the full monthly due monthly amount keeping the account active and not in default.

What is the state of your credit file? Does it show a default / late payments? If only late payments they'll be less damaging than a default marker so long as it's brought back upto date but with late payments and / or a default being recent you may struggle to get a good mortgage as they are a lot stricter now.

Good luck

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

I had a "Together Mortgage" with northern rock. The property was sold in dec 2014 leaving £16k for the unsecured loan.

Was your Together Mortgage one of the ones who may be entitled to compensation if it was originally for less than £25k?

This issue has been toing and froing in the courts so I'm not sure of the current legal situation but I'll check it out.

2012> http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...rror-taxpayers

2015> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...pensation.html

Plan B x

[Ruthus]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

i have just checked my Credit report and i have no negative marks - and nothing at all about Northern Rock loan - why do you think this is?

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

i have just checked my Credit report and i have no negative marks - and nothing at all about Northern Rock loan - why do you think this is?

When you sold the property in 2014 were all the repayments on the Together Mortgage unsecured loan up-to-date or had you defaulted? If the account had been defaulted in 2010 or before then the unsecured loan would disappear from your CRA file even if there is still a balance outstanding.

Ditto the core mortgage details and the CRAs.

I'm only guessing because you've not yet given us the financial history of this loan.

Did you have PPI on either the mortgage or the unsecured loan?

Plan B x

[Ruthus]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

When you sold the property in 2014 were all the repayments on the Together Mortgage unsecured loan up-to-date or had you defaulted? If the account had been defaulted in 2010 or before then the unsecured loan would disappear from your CRA file even if there is still a balance outstanding.

Ditto the core mortgage details and the CRAs.

I'm only guessing because you've not yet given us the financial history of this loan.

Did you have PPI on either the mortgage or the unsecured loan?

Plan B x

No we was in arrears by 7 months - ok so if i apply for a mortgage within the next few months say would these arrears etc be detected and therefore stop me from getting a mortgage?

PPI was taken out on the secured loan that was also paid off when the property was sold in Dec 14 - but the PPI was in my ex's name only as in the PPI agreement was in his name as he took out the secured loan in both name without my consent - yes fraud but because i knew what he had done and didn't report it for 18 mths after (my ex threatened to kill himself blar blar) the police wouldn't do anything and NR said they followed all procedures and checks when the loan was taken out and had no doubt to question it - anyway because he took out the secured loan he also did the PPI which was paid out of joint bank account but only in his name? is this correct? shouldn't it of been in both names?

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

but the PPI was in my ex's name only as in the PPI agreement was in his name as he took out the secured loan in both name without my consent - yes fraud but because i knew what he had done and didn't report it for 18 mths after (my ex threatened to kill himself blar blar) the police wouldn't do anything and NR said they followed all procedures and checks when the loan was taken out and had no doubt to question it - anyway because he took out the secured loan he also did the PPI which was paid out of joint bank account but only in his name?

Are you saying that the joint mortgage application was 'questionable' but NR brushed it off as not their responsibility when you informed them?

The Together Mortgage product was a combination of secured mortgage and unsecured loan. This would mean that the unsecured loan application may also have been 'questionable'.

The police may not have seen it as a criminal offence but that doesn't mean NR did their due diligence when they provided the loan(s). It depends on the nature of the fraud (was your signature forged?) as to whether NR could/should have known.

I think you've opened a can of worms here.

There's a difference between you knowing what your ex did (possible fraud) and you being complicit in what he did (i.e. helped him). So if it turns out that you (individually) have a good reason to dispute your liability for that £16k balance outstanding then you may need legal help to deal with that once you know where you stand.

I wonder whether any of this could be the reason why NR stopped reporting the loan to the CRAs.

How long ago did you report all this to NR? You may still have the opportunity to make a formal complaint (if you haven't already) and then refer it to the FOS if necessary. They're pretty useless but it may provide an opportunity to negotiate your way out of that £16k outstanding balance.

Plan B x

[Ruthus]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

Are you saying that the joint mortgage application was 'questionable' but NR brushed it off as not their responsibility when you informed them?

The Together Mortgage product was a combination of secured mortgage and unsecured loan. This would mean that the unsecured loan application may also have been 'questionable'.

The police may not have seen it as a criminal offence but that doesn't mean NR did their due diligence when they provided the loan(s). It depends on the nature of the fraud (was your signature forged?) as to whether NR could/should have known.

I think you've opened a can of worms here.

There's a difference between you knowing what your ex did (possible fraud) and you being complicit in what he did (i.e. helped him). So if it turns out that you (individually) have a good reason to dispute your liability for that £16k balance outstanding then you may need legal help to deal with that once you know where you stand.

I wonder whether any of this could be the reason why NR stopped reporting the loan to the CRAs.

How long ago did you report all this to NR? You may still have the opportunity to make a formal complaint (if you haven't already) and then refer it to the FOS if necessary. They're pretty useless but it may provide an opportunity to negotiate your way out of that £16k outstanding balance.

Plan B x

No we took the mortgage out along with the unsecured loan in 2006 that part is fine - then in 2007 my ex took out a secured loan of £25k without my knowledge until i found out weeks later and instead of doing the right thing and going to police etc i kept quiet as he promised he would pay back with bonuses from work over a few year and you can guess the rest that this never happened!

yes my signature was forged by my ex - i provided the police with a handwriting sample as i got my local MP involved and it came back as "inconclusive" and "in my opinion provide moderate support for the proposition that (my name) did not sign the form shown by item A ( the copy of application form for secured loan) rather that this signature is an attempt at simulation. the police said that wasn't enough

I have paid thousand in legal costs regarding this but NR would delay, not respond etc and then they said that they would be prepared to go to court and basically i would loose and pay all costs - and i just didn't want to get anymore into debt so i left it.

i went to the FOS who where useless and said NR followed procedure?? how i dont know!
I just want this mortgage to go through with no hitches

Thanks for all your advice x

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

we took the mortgage out along with the unsecured loan in 2006 that part is fine - then in 2007 my ex took out a secured loan of £25k without my knowledge until i found out weeks later . . . . yes my signature was forged by my ex

It sounds like you're well rid of your ex

I'm also sorry that the police and the FOS maybe didn't take your complaint more seriously. At least your MP did at the time.

So does this mean that the £16k these solicitors are currently chasing you for is in relation to the £25k secured loan which had a 'questionable' application which was not redeemed by your solicitor when the property was sold in 2014?

Or do you mean that when the property was sold in 2014 your solicitor redeemed the NR mortgage but not the unsecured "Together" loan element so that's what these solicitors are chasing you for now (£16k)?

Can you also clarify one more thing which is when was the last payment made to the unsecured (Together Mortgage) loan and when was the last payment made to the secured NR loan. That would help to establish when and whether a default should have been registered on your CRA file. You've already said that your mortgage was 7 months in arrears in 2014.

As far as your initial question goes about your chances of getting a mortgage with your new partner all I can say is a lot depends on whether the current situation changes for the worse.

You say that there is nothing negative on your CRA files. In fact you say that there's nothing at all reported to the CRAs in relation to this NR mortgage, the associated unsecured loan and secured loan on your file.

That's why I'm asking all these annoying questions so you can get to the bottom of this

Who are the solicitors chasing you? Would it be DrydensFairfax by any chance?

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

PPI was taken out on the secured loan that was also paid off when the property was sold in Dec 14 - but the PPI was in my ex's name only as in the PPI agreement was in his name as he took out the secured loan

I asked about any PPI because if the product had been missold then maybe any reclaim could be offset against the amount outstanding which the solicitors are chasing you for.

I was unclear as to whether the the loan which you're being hounded for is the one which may have had PPI added to it.

Plan B x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

Stupid question coming up but if they are chasing you for repayment of a secured loan where the security is already redeemed then really, what can they do?

Surely they couldn't go to court if the security was released without repayment of the secured loan...? Isn't that equivalent to selling a house with a restriction. Once sold the restriction is worthless.

I'm not 100% sure of the answer hence I'm asking - but my heads buzzing around the "what can they do" scenario. Anyway - ho hum

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

I had a "Together Mortgage" with northern rock. The property was sold in dec 2014 leaving £16k for the unsecured loan

PPI was taken out on the secured loan that was also paid off when the property was sold in Dec 14

No we took the mortgage out along with the unsecured loan in 2006 that part is fine - then in 2007 my ex took out a secured loan of £25k

Have I understood this correctly?

The £25k secured loan taken out in 2007 was paid off in full with the mortgage when the property was sold in 2014.

The unsecured loan taken out in 2006 as part of the Together Mortgage product wasn't paid off when the property was sold and this is the debt of £16k which the solicitors are now chasing you for.

Was that unsecured loan for less that £25k because if it was then there's a slim chance it may be unenforceable since NR has admitted their paperwork had a glitch (see my post # 3)

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...rror-taxpayers

Don't contact those solicitors again until we've had the opportunity to assess your situation since we may be able to help you go down the UE route if that's the way to go

Do you have a copy of the original Together Mortgage paperwork or the unsecured loan credit agreement?

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

No we was in arrears by 7 months - ok so if i apply for a mortgage within the next few months say would these arrears etc be detected and therefore stop me from getting a mortgage?

If the whole NRAM file has disappeared from the CRAs then those arrears from 2014 won't be detected.

However as part of the application process for a new mortgage you may be asked if you've previously held a mortgage in the last three years and if the answer is Yes you may be asked to provide a statement covering the last 12 months of that mortgage.

In your case this was a joint mortgage with a different person than the person who will be the joint applicant for your new mortgage (if you follow me). This will help as the credit scoring for the new mortgage will take into account both of your financial circumstances.

I think you'd be wise to use a broker when applying for this next mortgage rather than go direct to a lender. A broker will know how to pitch your situation and which lenders are likely to be receptive. If there is anything which flags up as not normal then your application will be taken out of the automated system and sent to underwriters to approve. This is when a broker can be invaluable since they will deal with the underwriters on your behalf. They know what to say and what not to say.

Plan B x

[Ruthus]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

It sounds like you're well rid of your ex

I'm also sorry that the police and the FOS maybe didn't take your complaint more seriously. At least your MP did at the time.

So does this mean that the £16k these solicitors are currently chasing you for is in relation to the £25k secured loan which had a 'questionable' application which was not redeemed by your solicitor when the property was sold in 2014?

Or do you mean that when the property was sold in 2014 your solicitor redeemed the NR mortgage but not the unsecured "Together" loan element so that's what these solicitors are chasing you for now (£16k)?

Can you also clarify one more thing which is when was the last payment made to the unsecured (Together Mortgage) loan and when was the last payment made to the secured NR loan. That would help to establish when and whether a default should have been registered on your CRA file. You've already said that your mortgage was 7 months in arrears in 2014.

As far as your initial question goes about your chances of getting a mortgage with your new partner all I can say is a lot depends on whether the current situation changes for the worse.

You say that there is nothing negative on your CRA files. In fact you say that there's nothing at all reported to the CRAs in relation to this NR mortgage, the associated unsecured loan and secured loan on your file.

That's why I'm asking all these annoying questions so you can get to the bottom of this

Who are the solicitors chasing you? Would it be DrydensFairfax by any chance?

Plan B x

Yes the property was sold in 2013 and the Mortgage and secured loan was paid off but not the Unsecured loan

i took this from NR Website
Together Mortgages are a combination of a secured mortgage and an unsecured loan at a single interest rate with one combined monthly payment. If you have redeemed the secured mortgage element (i.e. moved your mortgage to another lender) and opted to leave the unsecured element as an unsecured personal loan with NRAM, we refer to this as a delinked loan.

But after the morg etc was paid off NR didn't send me any details for this "Delinked Loan" surely i would of have new account number - payment terms etc? i didn't get anything.
The last payment that was made for morg or any of the loans was Apl 13 - i had decorated the house to a salable condition as we had tenants in there for 4 years but when i went to put the property on the market my ex pulled it from Estate Agents as he hadn't been consulted (he knew what i was planning as we had had a meeting - just a control freak to the end) so the property sat empty until Oct 13 when i got solicitors involved and he couldn't refuse sale. So they are now chasing the 16k unsecured loan - and yes it is DrydensFairfax .

Thanks

[Ruthus]

Re: Northern Rock - Together Mortgages - Unsecured Loan

if i am asked to provide a statement covering the last 12 months of that mortgage wont that just be the morg payments and not the unsecured loan?

i went to see a morg consultant on sat and i did say i had a morg previously - she asked when and i said 2006 and she said oh that fine but actually what she meant was when did i get rid of it - do i say something or not?