SAR response incomplete?

[Selidie]

Hi,

I came across the site after being a bit of a lurker for a while on MSE, great site and a lot of information by the way.

Anyway, onto the issue at hand for me, oh an apologies if this is the wrong section, I sat here for a while trying to decide where to post this but wasn't really sure.

I had a debt management agreement with DCM Apex which ended in June this year (5 years). Over the course of the 5 years I have had various issues with how things were dealt with and am currently working with CAB to see if I have grounds to take that further. One of the main issues was that I had a CCJ issued against me in Dec 2008 (due to non-payment) and the same DCA / Solicitor too further action as my agreement finished in that they applied for an agreed notice on my property.

Anyway, I sent DCM a SAR as I wanted to look at all the payments they had made and received etc. and compare that to the statements I already have from the creditors. I received the response from the SAR at the 38 day point (they like to keep everything to the last minute). I have looked through the paperwork and there doesn't seem to be much for 5 years worth! There is a statement showing payments, fees etc which only goes back to mid 2006 (agreement started Jul 2005), a print out of their computerised log which has various 2 line entries with brief jists of phonecalls I have had with them, many entries which just say 'Creditor contacted' etc. this just seems very incomplete to me, especially no payments or anything for the first year.

I have briefly spoken to my CAB case worker over this but she is busy looking at legal options for me and I can't get an appointment at the moment to discuss in depth, so thought I would ask on here.

Should I expect more from a SAR? I have never submitted one before so have nothing to compare to. Things I think are missing:

1) Records of the first years payments / reciepts
2) No copy of the original agreement (should that be in there?)
3) No copy of any of the letters I had sent myself (3 or 4), or letters I forwarded from the creditors (lots of these, should they be there?)
4) No information about any payment agreements that were made with creditors?

Should I send another letter back to DCM highlighting my concerns about the SAR content?

Any help or pointers would be very much appreciated.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Hiya

You need to complain to the correct body - CAB are as much use to you as a chocolate fireguard, contact the ICO first and foremost as they govern Data Protection (DPA1998) and as for the DMC's business practice, you would report that to the FOS usually... however, you have to give the firm time to respond.

What I want to know is how the hell did you get a CCJ if you were in a formal DMP - that is like, ermmm - wrong! Apply to the court that issued the CCJ for a set-aside if necessary - but you'd need to be speaking to the DMC first.....

Sorry, not much help I know but you're speaking about legal action against a DMC - personally, i'd be claiming compo if they have messed up for for your SAR issues, there should be a document relating to each payment taken and subsequently made - they MUST be able to provide HMRC accurate accounts and part of this could be investigated so they must retain records in line with DPA guidance for usually 6years....

Me thinks this is a hornets nest and too much going on... you need to look to

1. Complain to the ICO regards to SAR
2. Complain to FOS regards to DMC
3. Complain to the DMC direct
4. Look at speaking to the court and apply for set-aside of ccj
5. Similarly, regards to the charging order on your house
6. Seek legal advice from a solicitor that deals with consumer credit

Best of luck.... you're gonna need it.

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Thanks for the info.

There is a bit more info than I originally put as I was mainly looking at the SAR info at the moment, ill give you a bit mroe as you have picked up on most of it already

The account that the CCJ and subsequent Application for Agreed Notice were issued against, has since been paid in full, buy the DMC after the end of the formal agreement, at my request. However, as you said, the issuing of the CCJ and Agreed Notice App, while under the DMC, should not have happened. I originally contacted CAB who put me intouch with a solicitor to give me an idea of whether it is worth persuing, however that solicitor (who are apparently have consumer credit experts) now wants £500 up front to investigate before giving that opinion, so looking at other avenues now for that, funnily enough at the end of a DMC I don't have £500 lieing around

I am about to be writing to get the CCJ entry on my credit file annotated as settled.

I have already sent a formal complaint to the DMC and had a response which was all before I contacted CAB etc. Basically they just fobbed me off with excuses about not paying the debts off in the 5 years, they didn't even comment about the CCJ which I asked about in the complaint. The last part of the complaint said, "please bare in mind we are a small company currently experiencing staff shortages", I just had a laugh at that comment!

I will look at writing to the ICO about the lack of information in the SAR, and to the FOS about the DMC, thanks for that.

I am certainly not going to let this drop, I get the destinct impression the DMC are just fobbing me off all the time hoping I will get bored and go away, unfortunately they are sadly mistaken as they have seriously annoyed me!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

There is a bit more info than I originally put as I was mainly looking at the SAR info at the moment, ill give you a bit mroe as you have picked up on most of it already

sorry, I tend to pick up on most things.....

The account that the CCJ and subsequent Application for Agreed Notice were issued against, has since been paid in full, buy the DMC after the end of the formal agreement, at my request. However, as you said, the issuing of the CCJ and Agreed Notice App, while under the DMC, should not have happened. I originally contacted CAB who put me intouch with a solicitor to give me an idea of whether it is worth persuing, however that solicitor (who are apparently have consumer credit experts) now wants £500 up front to investigate before giving that opinion, so looking at other avenues now for that, funnily enough at the end of a DMC I don't have £500 lieing around

Hmmm, do you have free legal cover with your home insurance - that may be worth investigating..... as to the actual fact a CCJ etc was added, it was incorrectly added so you need to get the DMC to write to the court that issued it and HAVE them request removal - similarly, as you've now paid the ccj the court should give a certificate of satisfaction which you send to the CRA's - the CRA's cannot and will not do anything without that certificate.... so save your efforts asking the CRA's directly...

I am about to be writing to get the CCJ entry on my credit file annotated as settled.

See above comment regards this - ring the court of issuance and ask for certificate of satisfaction. 2

I have already sent a formal complaint to the DMC and had a response which was all before I contacted CAB etc. Basically they just fobbed me off with excuses about not paying the debts off in the 5 years, they didn't even comment about the CCJ which I asked about in the complaint. The last part of the complaint said, "please bare in mind we are a small company currently experiencing staff shortages", I just had a laugh at that comment!

WHAT??!! That bears no reflection on the situation whatsoever - if they have mishandled your funds which in turn has affected your "ability to obtain credit" then they have breached the DPA and as such, as long as that CCJ is showing you are entitled to claim for Libel which carries a £5k statutory limit..... I'd seriously consider suing them.

I will look at writing to the ICO about the lack of information in the SAR, and to the FOS about the DMC, thanks for that.

Best of luck....

I am certainly not going to let this drop, I get the destinct impression the DMC are just fobbing me off all the time hoping I will get bored and go away, unfortunately they are sadly mistaken as they have seriously annoyed me!

See what happens, if you need me to sort you a more formal threat to the DMC then I can do, quoting all sorts of laws..... Just let me know.

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Hmmm, do you have free legal cover with your home insurance - that may be worth investigating..... as to the actual fact a CCJ etc was added, it was incorrectly added so you need to get the DMC to write to the court that issued it and HAVE them request removal - similarly, as you've now paid the ccj the court should give a certificate of satisfaction which you send to the CRA's - the CRA's cannot and will not do anything without that certificate.... so save your efforts asking the CRA's directly...

Thanks, ill have a look at my household insurance and see exactly what it has on it, can't remember the details off the top of my head. I am no longer in the agreement with the DMC having finished it shortly after the 5 year contractual time due to the issues I have. I have already contacted the creditors that they left me with (they did pay some of them off) and sorting out payments to them etc. Funnily enough, the only ones they didn't pay off are the ones that hadn't passed the account to a DCA (HFC Bank, Intelligent Finance and a small one with Barclays. When I said about getting the CCJ amended, I meant applying for a certificate of satisfaction, just couldn't rmember the term.

WHAT??!! That bears no reflection on the situation whatsoever - if they have mishandled your funds which in turn has affected your "ability to obtain credit" then they have breached the DPA and as such, as long as that CCJ is showing you are entitled to claim for Libel which carries a £5k statutory limit..... I'd seriously consider suing them.

My sentiments exactly regarding the relevance of the comment, I think that speaks volumes about the company really. I have been gathering some details already with regard to the issues. For example, I have a number of statements from creditors that shows, quite clearly, that the DMC haven't made monthly payments to them, in once case there was 6 months between payments! I did receive numerous letters from them companies when the accounts were in arrears, but being stupid I didn't keep copies of them and just forwarded them to the DMC. It is those letters I was refering to in the original post asking if copies should of been included with the SAR. I was totally unaware of the potential for libel, although that is what I was looking into with the solicitor referal, thats useful info but I also appreciate it is probably very 'situation specific' and your points are 'general principle'

See what happens, if you need me to sort you a more formal threat to the DMC then I can do, quoting all sorts of laws..... Just let me know.

The offer is very much appreciated and I may take you up on that. Let me look into the legal cover side of my household insurance etc. If I have sufficient cover I may put it back in the hands of the solicitor CAB put me intouch with and see where it goes from there.

Will keep you posted,

Again, thanks.

**EDIT: Have just checked my household insurance (should of done it before posting really) and the following statement is part of my Legal Expense Cover and I assume this would cover it?

"This policy covers legal and professional fee, costs and expenses up to XXXXXXX in connection with pursuing civil legal proceedings in respect of any of the following insurance incidents:

5. The purchase, hire, leasing or sale of personal or private goods, or the provision of services for your private or personal use""

I assume, as I DMC was paid, then that would class as 'the provision of services for private or personal use' ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

5. The purchase, hire, leasing or sale of personal or private goods, or the provision of services for your private or personal use""

I assume, as I DMC was paid, then that would class as 'the provision of services for private or personal use' ?

You got it k k

I managed to use my insurance to sue the CRA's - but won before it went to court so never claimed in the end - that is why I suggested you check - they may say no - you need to stand firm and argue your point....

Best of luck.....

As for the SAR - i.e. missing paperwork, you would complain to the ICO here: ---> http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/data_protection.aspx

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Thanks again, the legal department from my insurance are supposed to be calling me back this morning, fingers crossed.

Had a look at the website and they do suggest giving the company an opportunity to rectify the problem with the SAR, so I will write to them today expressing my concerns and asking that the information be provided ASAP. Not sure on time scales to give them to respond at the moment, was thinking 10 working days? Do you think that is reasonable?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Thanks again, the legal department from my insurance are supposed to be calling me back this morning, fingers crossed.

Had a look at the website and they do suggest giving the company an opportunity to rectify the problem with the SAR, so I will write to them today expressing my concerns and asking that the information be provided ASAP. Not sure on time scales to give them to respond at the moment, was thinking 10 working days? Do you think that is reasonable?

They won't really listen to any threat of timescale - the fact you have already given 40+ days for them to respond to the SAR is enough time, so you must now complain to the ICO as this can take months to sort out - they are rather busy lately

get the complaint in, don't bother writing to the data processor again - no point.

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Thanks again, the legal department from my insurance are supposed to be calling me back this morning, fingers crossed.

Had a look at the website and they do suggest giving the company an opportunity to rectify the problem with the SAR, so I will write to them today expressing my concerns and asking that the information be provided ASAP. Not sure on time scales to give them to respond at the moment, was thinking 10 working days? Do you think that is reasonable?

They won't really listen to any threat of timescale - the fact you have already given 40+ days for them to respond to the SAR is enough time, so you must now complain to the ICO as this can take months to sort out - they are rather busy lately

get the complaint in, don't bother writing to the data processor again - no point.

The reason I was going to send it back to the data processor is because the ICO website says that you should give them an opportunity to rectify the problem before you submit a complaint.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

The reason I was going to send it back to the data processor is because the ICO website says that you should give them an opportunity to rectify the problem before you submit a complaint.

As I've said twice before, complain to the ICO - forget what their website says - i've done 100's of these! You MUST complain - the data processor will not act - they never do!

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Fair enough, as this is my first time I just like to clarify ;30

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Fair enough, as this is my first time I just like to clarify ;30

Okies - hopefully clarity is sorted

Just complain to the ICO as this will take a while, in the meantime you'll have to sit back and let us know any updates....

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Will do, currently waiting for my household insurance to send me the paperwork to claim on the legal expense cover. They then review what I send them and cover apparently depends on how viable they consider the case to me!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Will do, currently waiting for my household insurance to send me the paperwork to claim on the legal expense cover. They then review what I send them and cover apparently depends on how viable they consider the case to me!

That's about right, so lay it on thick and elaborate the fact that you're in a win-win situation. I guess no insurer will take on a dead-horse cos that would mean they pay the other party legal costs so they do tend to pick and choose their cases.... ;Hmm

[Selidie]

Re: SAR response incomplete?

Im hoping I have a reasonable amount of information already gathered:

1) The agreement itself obviously ;30
2) Statements from creditors at the end of the agreement that show the DMC hasn't made monthly payments (which agreements says the will).
3) CCJ in Dec 2008 then same company taking further action in July this year.
4) Letters to me, from DMC, acknowledging they have had problems making payments (blaming their system, what a surprise haha).
to name a few.

I also noticed, on going through their SAR paperwork, that there are many payments on it that are only marked as 'Printed' (they paid creditors by cheque for the first 3-4 years, until their system changed) whereas most are marked as 'cashed'. Now, the problem I have there is that they charged a 10% management fee on all payments made, however, looking at the numbers they have included the 'printed' ones in the monthly payment total and have calculated the monthly management fee from that total, this tells me that they have over charged me in fees as well as everything else.

I will be laying it on thick ;Red detailing every single thing I can, down to the smallest detail