Putting RBS right on my refund.

[DoTheyMeanMe]

I am starting a new thread because my previous one was really about getting NatWest to agree PPI had been mis-sold. That thread is here: http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...st-help-needed . After intervention by the FOS RBS changed their minds. I have received a credit to this credit card account of £4,664.84, which almost clears the balance on it.

I should mention that, although the card ran from 1998, I do NOT have statements for the period January 2004 to July 2006. I have all the others. RBS do not know I have these statements.

I wrote to RBS for a breakdown of their calculations and today received a (not very satisfactory) reply.

It is headed, "Refund of premiums between 18/06/1988 (probably a typo) and 18/11/2006". (18/11/2006 was the date the account went to collections and the PPI was cancelled by them.)

Here are the figures they have provided:
£2,344.14 (I presume this is the total PPI premiums charged)
Compound interest on premiums, based upon interest rates charged on credit card: £712.36
Total refund due: £3056.50
Gross interest at 8%, where applicable: £2,010.43
Less income tax; £402.09
Net interest: £1,608.34
Net offer: £4,664.84

They also enclosed a list showing the statement dates and the PPI premiums charged. This list only starts at 18-07-2001, and shows a NIL opening PPI balance. (I have statements showing £523.90 in PPI premiums before that date). Other than that, their figures for PPI premiums match my own. (Oddly enough, there was none of this information in the their response to my SAR).

Sorry, but there is even more.....

This next bit strikes me as very odd...

Their list of PPI charges is exactly the same as the statements I have, however, from December 2003 (the very date I have my last statement before the gap) their figures show EXACTLY the same PPI monthly premium (£58.50) for nine consecutive months. They then show the same monthly premium (£39.00) for three further consecutive months. The next PPI premium is £0.10 (December 2004) which suggests the card balance was cleared in that month.

So, it looks as if they have had to estimate the PPI premiums for twelve months (Dec 2003 to Dec 2004).

As previously said, they do not know what statements I have or even if I have any at all.

Obviously, I will need to write to them with details of the £523.90 in PPI premiums charged from October 1998 to July 2001 and get them to recalculate their offer. But I thought I should post this before I do so to let wiser heads have a look. I know we have some real experts on here.

Ladies and gentlemen, I would appreciate your views and input before I write back to this crowd.

Many thanks
DTMM

[TibetanMonk]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Good news on the PPI refund, and hope you get what you deserve, I don't know much but wanted to wish you well.

[di30]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Firstly well done on your success!

I totally agree with you writing to them about that matter and its up to you if you wish to send them "copies" of the statements you hold that they never held, which was highly possible the case of them having to estimate the figure.

However, if you did need help with any calcs Bill/Turbo are very good with these matters.

Its only right you should be refunded all your money, and as you have that proof yourself that will of course be a good help in order for them to do this for you.

Again well done x

[ken100464]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

I would not mess about with this one but would write to the CEO of RBS asking him to look into the matter saying you have statements enclosing one copy of one of the ones they have not used or said they have.

Just sorta put in the letter he wants to be a bank people trust. So why does his staff not follow what he is preaching. Perhaps a hint you might go to an investigative journalist if he feels his shower of a company should not be giving back the money they stole from you.

I would also as di suggests ask Bill to get together a spreadsheet to check what they offer next time.

[DoTheyMeanMe]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Well, some additional activity on this one but no money out of RBS.

I decided to send them copies of the old (1998-2001) statements I have. Soon after I received communication from NatWest referring to statements from 2004. You may remember that my SAR only contained statements back to 2006.

I wrote to the Data Controller who wrote back admitting they had statements back to 2001. and apologising for not sending them. A couple of days later came a package with copies of ALL the statements back to 2001. This means I now have every statement for this card (some copies, most originals) from its start in 1998.

I have put together a spreadsheet (based on the FOS example and Bill-K's excellent spreadsheet). It is now fairly apparent what they have done:

They seem to have calculated the PPI offer up to November 2006, the date the account was defaulted and sent to 'collections'. My calculations and theirs are within about £100 of each other, at that date.

For whatever reason they have decided not to pay the 8% statutory interest from that date to the payout date (3rd April 2014). This amounts to the sum of £2,800+. Even after 20% tax and clearing the balance on the card we should be due about £2000.

If this seems like Deja-vu it may be because you have previously read my 'Halifax PPI' thread.

So, both RBS (and Halifax) seem to be only paying statutory interest up to the point an account is defaulted - which is contravention of FOS guidelines.

So that is it at this point, except to say, "I wonder how many other people have been fleeced by this practice"?

DTMM

[di30]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Hi

I would write to the CEO of the business, give it a try, forward all your calculations and state your point about the standard interest, attach information of guidelines.

Sometimes it works :-)

[DoTheyMeanMe]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Little update here - still being stonewalled by RBS on how they arrived at the compound interest figure but their last letter has an amusing paragraph.

They took the trouble to explain to me what compound interest is and gave me an example. Here is the relevant paragraph:

As a basic look at the compound interest aspect, if you compared the monthly balance of the credit card with and without PPI and the difference was £20, then the interest element would be determined from this figure. If the monthly interest rate was 1% and 12% per annum, this would mean that the starting figure for the compound interest is 20p (1% of £20.00) if your card then ran for 5 years, the compound interest on this PPI premium would accumulate as follows, year 1 = 22p, year 2 = 25p, year 3 = 28p, year 4 = 31p, year 5 = 35p. Therefore the total amount difference in balance of £20.00 in this example would be 35p.
I'm am not the world's best at maths but I reckon the correct answer to the above is a little more than 35p (roughly £16.00 more, in fact). Opinions anyone?

DTMM

[DoTheyMeanMe]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Up[date

01-09-15 Letter of complaint sent to RBS CEO, enclosing their 'nonsensical' letter of 12th August.
Two weeks on and not even an acknowledgement.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Putting RBS right on my refund.

Go to the stoozing website & use their free calculator tool