Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

[panther12]

I thought I'd have a go at reclaiming for a mis-sold Natwest Advantage Gold packaged account on behalf of my Brother. I've posted below the complaint letter that was sent and the banks reply which I have just been handed.

They have dismissed the claim as they say it falls outside the time limit for making such a complaint (6 years of the event or, if later, 3 years from when you ought reasonably to have known you had cause to complain).

They have based this time limit on when the account was opened (16 Sep 2004) and the date they claim to have sent review letters (29 July 2009, 30 March 2010 & 18 Jan 2013). Therefore they say the issues should have been raised by 29 July 2012 at the latest.

Are they correct in what they say? would be grateful if anyone can help with a suitable response to their letter.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

No that is incorrect. What they're saying is correct, ref timescales, but all you'd do is write back and state you only became aware of the mis-sold PPI at the time you originally wrote in based on a random ppi phone call. They mentioned your rights which got you thinking - and thus you wrote in hence you have complained at the first opportunity you became aware that you could complain.

That at will put things right. Wait for their reply. Then consider FOS.

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Thanks NiD, regarding the dates they're saying that we ought to have reasonably known from the date they claim to have sent a review letter on 29 July 2009 so the 3 years started at that point. I'm going to see if I can locate what's included in a review letter as I'm sure it will just detail the T&Cs of the various insurances and pretty sure there will be no mention that you have the right to complain if you feel the account was mis-sold. As our complaint details, it was sold as a condition to obtaining the overdraft facility so even though the various insurances were worthless to brother he still had to take it to obtain the OD.

Pisses me off when they try to weasel out like this. I note they've not disputed any other aspect of the complaint or the fact that is was mis-sold, only that we're out of time! (Yes we know we screwed you over with a worthless packaged account but tough shit, too late sunny).
I'm now at DEFON 3

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

What review letter in 2009

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

I'm guessing that the review letters they refer to are bumf they send out whenever there is any changes to the benefits provided or increases in the monthly fees. Unfortunately we don't have all the papers but have found one which although is undated believe it might refer to the review letter they said was sent on 18 Jan 2013.

Twatwest review letter.pdf

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

I came across this which I think will come in very handy. Bit of a lengthy read but contains some good info I can use to shove back at twatwest.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

I came across this which I think will come in very handy. Bit of a lengthy read but contains some good info I can use to shove back at twatwest.

You don't need to. Don't be "too clever" as the FOS will hold it against you. For example you became an expert overnight? No. They'll presume you knew you had PPI and knew the exclusions.

Act like a normal layperson with the bank. Argue it as suggested in my first reply and then follow process and go to FOS arguing that you've read more and done google searches, found info etc and feel the bank are wrong to dismiss your claim. That's all you need to do.

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Nice one NiD, you're absolutely right. I'll dumb it down to a paragraph of simple pleb language that they understand and save the rest for later, should it get that far. Cheers.

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Just a little update. I fired off a letter in response to Twatties refusal and thought it worth a shot with an email to the RBS ceo. Have just received a reply from the exec office:

Thank you for your email addressed to Ross McEwan. Ross has asked that I respond on his behalf.

I was sorry to learn that you are unhappy at the decision reached by Solomon Abiola in relation to the complaint you raised about the mis-selling of the Advantage Gold account. It must have been very frustrating to receive Solomon’s decision after such a lengthy wait. I have requested a background report on your complaint so I can review the decision. I expect to be able to respond by the middle of next week at the very latest, I hope this is acceptable.

In the meantime I have arranged for the account to be downgraded to a Select account and the fees charged since April will be refunded. I regret this wasn’t done when you originally asked us to.

Kind Regards
Ross McDonald
Executive Office

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Oh well, looks like it's time for FOS.

Thank you for your email addressed to Ross McEwan and for your patience while I reviewed your complaint. I am sorry our initial response was not what you were hoping for. I have now completed my review of your case and make the following observations.

As you are probably aware, there is a lot of interest around the mis-selling of packaged accounts. The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) have been asked to review many such complaints by unhappy customers of all banks and we spend a lot of time reviewing cases that the Ombudsman has adjudicated on. The reason for us doing this is so we get the best understanding we can about decisions made by FOS and it helps us understand their reasoning. We then try to ensure that our staff are using the same thought process to evaluate each customer claim.

Having considered the points you make and our own information relating to your account, I am not persuaded that we have reached the wrong decision. I do believe that your complaint should be considered as time barred, but I do regret that it took us quite so long to each that conclusion. We want to be able to respond to each customer in a timely manner and I regret that in your case we were unable to do so. The only excuse I can provide for our delay is down to unusually high work volumes and we are working hard to address this issue.

When we wrote to you with our decision we failed to provide any information about how to downgrade your account. We should have advised you to contact 0800 616 848 (opening hours Monday - Friday 8-8, Saturday 9-6, Sunday Closed) or alternatively visit any of our branches. You will need to do this to ensure your account is downgraded to a more suitable product for your needs.

While I am unable to uphold your complaint about your account being mis-sold, I do agree that your complaint should have been managed more professionally by us. The delay in responding and lack of information about how to downgrade your account is disappointing and I apologise unreservedly for this. To say sorry for this, I have arranged to refund your last 12 months packaged account fees totalling £180. I realise that this refund is small in comparison to what you are expecting, but I hope it reflects my regret at the way we managed your complaint.

I realise that you will now approach the FOS to seek a full review of your complaint and we will co-operate with the Ombudsman if they deem an investigation is appropriate.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

[Pixie]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Good luck with the FOS but I wouldn't expect too much

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Good luck with the FOS but I wouldn't expect too much

The Fob Off Service!

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Yeah looks like we're in for the long haul on this one - got nothing to lose to may as well carry on.

I've had a quick look at the downloadable fos complaint form and there is one specifically for complaints regarding "packaged accounts" so I will get that filled out over the next week or 2. I notice one of the Q's asks about how & where you were sold the packaged account. I'm not sure the best way to go about this as I'm doing this on behalf of my brother and the Adv Gold account & overdraft facility was arranged through a friend of the brother who works for Twatwest. It was arranged in a pub so brother never even visited the branch. Not sure if this would be relevent or not but didn't really want to get brothers twatwest friend in any trouble.

[Pixie]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

I'm not sure about that but would they know whether or not he actually took the account out in a NatWest branch. Did the friend work at the same branch where your brother had his account?

[panther12]

Re: Natwest Adv Gold mis-sold packaged account - Dismissed as out of time!

Yeah he already had a loan & current a/c at same branch. Brothers friend arranged the packaged account & overdraft in the pub with employee and they sorted the paperwork when they returned back to branch. I think the main issue to overcome is the time-bar so probably won't need to go into ins & outs of how & where it was sold but will hold it in reserve for later.