probable repossession

[confused76]

Hi guys n gals, i hope someone can help with my problem...

we moved into a rented flat in April 2011, signing a 12 month tenancy agreement.

We received a letter addresses 'to the occupier' a couple of weeks ago stating that NRAM, the landlord's mortgage company, were going to court the first week of January for repossession.

I rang the LL and asked what their intentions were and if they were planning on attending court etc, where does this leave us etc. At first the LL wasn't going to bother going to court but now says he will. They have been underpaying their mortgage since we moved in in April by £200 a month and don't have the funds to catch up on the arrears. I think they just want to let it go now as they are in serious negative equity and stuck with an expensive mortgage.

NRAM don't currently know we are here, they think the LL still lives here, and he is planning on keeping up with this fib in court.

I have spoken to Shelter who said we should complete a form N244 to get attached to the proceedings etc, however, i am unsure what to do for the best. If we let the court and NRAM know we are here then this goes against the LL and i don't think our deposit is in a protected scheme, so we'd be waving goodbye to it. On the other hand, Shelter said if the court know we are tenants then it might buy us some more time in the property.

Does anyone have experience in this? Does anyone know how much time we are likely to get before we get turfed out?

Thanks for reading x

[Deepie]

Re: probable reposession

Hope this can help....

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...FcMMtAodp3YHmA

[BBoo]

Re: probable reposession

I'm with Shelter - get yourselves linked to the proceedings. You should also try to bring out into the open the fact your deposit has not been deposited in a protected scheme as this is against the law. Your landlord is actually committing theft by failing to comply with the law and should be shown to be doing so.

[confused76]

Re: probable reposession

Hope this can help....

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...FcMMtAodp3YHmA

thanks I2D i'll have a read x

I'm with Shelter - get yourselves linked to the proceedings. You should also try to bring out into the open the fact your deposit has not been deposited in a protected scheme as this is against the law. Your landlord is actually committing theft by failing to comply with the law and should be shown to be doing so.

thanks Bboo...i think i knew i should get it all into the open, i just hate getting involved. I think you've just confirmed it for me x

[BBoo]

Re: probable reposession

I think this is a case of sometimes having to look after number one!

You don't want yourself and your family homeless and your landlord disappearing with your deposit.

[confused76]

Re: probable reposession

I think this is a case of sometimes having to look after number one!

You don't want yourself and your family homeless and your landlord disappearing with your deposit.

you're so right...!

do you have any knowledge of the kind of timescales we'd be looking at to vacate the property?

[diddlydee]

Re: probable reposession

Confused.

Although there is no obligation, it may be in the landlords interest to allow you to stay in residence for a while; rental income is better than a loss by selling under value; especially if there are arrears and/or negative equity.

It is therefore very worthwhile you "looking after number 1" as they can only consider you if they know you exist!

I will keep everything crossed for you that you have a positive outcome xxx

[BBoo]

Re: probable reposession

I would question whether the tenancy agreement would withstand scrutiny as I would question from what you've said whether he informed his mortgage company he was going to let the flat out in the first place. This may release you from your obligations if you decide to move, but would not release him from his of protecting your deposit.

If you are wanting to stay, it would very much depend on what happens in court. When you say you think he wants out, has he acutally said this? Has he thought through the implications that there will still be a large negative equity to be paid off? If he has another property in which he is living has he thought that there may be implications for that?

If he hasn't actually said it, may he be looking to get some sort of reduced payment settlement agreed until his circumstances improve? If he can't afford the mortgage now, is it possible he was mis-sold it as interest rates are not going to get much lower?

There's so many things here that seem not to have been considered, it's impossible really to predict what may happen.

What won't happen is that you'll be turfed out on your ear with nowhere to go overnight as no judge in their right mind is going to order that when you are an innocent third party.

If you can speak to your landlord about these issues it would be helpful. Do you actually have the deposit to put down on another property if needs be, or would you be dependant on getting this one returned?

The first court date is only for the mortgage company being granted possession of the property. They then have to apply for an eviction notice which I think (note think) is normally about a further two months. Please do not take that last bit as read without confirmation from another source though.

[oscar]

Re: probable reposession

Outside of these proceedings, formal notice is usually 30 days. (I think)

I cant see how you can be given any less.

MAybe this LINK will give you some guidance

[diddlydee]

Re: probable reposession

This is the link on Shelters website which specifically deals with repossessions

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ndlords_lender

[PlanB]

Re: probable reposession

you're so right...!

do you have any knowledge of the kind of timescales we'd be looking at to vacate the property?

How long is your tenancy agreement and when is it due to expire? It's my understanding that the mortgage company cannot lawfully terminate an existing AST before it is due to expire (don't take my word for this check with Shelter). In a lot of cases the Tenant simply pays the rent direct to the mortgage company instead of the original Landlord after the lender is given possession by the court. If the property has negative equity the mortgage company may not want it left empty while they try to sell it at auction etc so they may be happy to have the rent coming in from you to mitigate their loss (but no guarantee). I've known Tenants stay put for more than a year Shelter's advice can be relied on and they have a very good Telephone Helpline.

If it was me I would 'out' myself to the lender who has no lawful right to evict you at the moment. They probably won't discuss anything with you since they would need your Landlord's authority because you're not the borrower. But at least they would be in the know Most lenders don't turn up at court for possession proceedings unless they are being defended and your Landlord would probably have had to file his Defence by now. They usually send a local advocate who will probably not have the authority to make a deal with you on the day so best to get cracking on this as soon as.

If you haven't been given written details of your deposit being protected/insured by a Government backed scheme this suggests it hasn't. Failure to comply with the law on this point means you can sue him in the County Court for 3 x the amount of your deposit which is the current mandatory penalty over which the DJ has no discretion. Depending on when your next rent due date is you could tell your Landlord to use the deposit to cover next month's rent in lieu of making your usual payment. But you must be sure of your legal facts first because if the property isn't repossessed you will be stuck with your Landlord evevr after who may accuse you of not paying rent. Always lay a paper trail and don't do anything over the phone

[confused76]

Re: probable reposession

Confused.

Although there is no obligation, it may be in the landlords interest to allow you to stay in residence for a while; rental income is better than a loss by selling under value; especially if there are arrears and/or negative equity.

It is therefore very worthwhile you "looking after number 1" as they can only consider you if they know you exist!

I will keep everything crossed for you that you have a positive outcome xxx

thanks diddles, that's also what Shelter said so i hope so. there's not much out there rental wise at the moment so if we can hang on here for a while that would be better x

I would question whether the tenancy agreement would withstand scrutiny as I would question from what you've said whether he informed his mortgage company he was going to let the flat out in the first place. This may release you from your obligations if you decide to move, but would not release him from his of protecting your deposit.

If you are wanting to stay, it would very much depend on what happens in court. When you say you think he wants out, has he acutally said this? Has he thought through the implications that there will still be a large negative equity to be paid off? If he has another property in which he is living has he thought that there may be implications for that?

If he hasn't actually said it, may he be looking to get some sort of reduced payment settlement agreed until his circumstances improve? If he can't afford the mortgage now, is it possible he was mis-sold it as interest rates are not going to get much lower?

There's so many things here that seem not to have been considered, it's impossible really to predict what may happen.

What won't happen is that you'll be turfed out on your ear with nowhere to go overnight as no judge in their right mind is going to order that when you are an innocent third party.

If you can speak to your landlord about these issues it would be helpful. Do you actually have the deposit to put down on another property if needs be, or would you be dependant on getting this one returned?

The first court date is only for the mortgage company being granted possession of the property. They then have to apply for an eviction notice which I think (note think) is normally about a further two months. Please do not take that last bit as read without confirmation from another source though.

well when i spoke to the LL about this, he confessed that he doesn't have the lender's authority to let out the flat, so i know this doesn't help us.

i think his mortgage was on a tracker with Northern Rock but then they got transferred to NRAM and the tracker ended, and they got put on a rubbish rate, so maybe they have grounds for complaint, i know i'd be complaining if that was me.

ahh right, that's interesting about the eviction notice, don't worry, i'm just after a rough idea. thanks for your help x

Outside of these proceedings, formal notice is usually 30 days. (I think)

I cant see how you can be given any less.

MAybe this LINK will give you some guidance

thanks Oscar, i'll have a look at that x

This is the link on Shelters website which specifically deals with repossessions

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ndlords_lender

thanks diddles, i'll have a read x

[confused76]

Re: probable reposession

How long is your tenancy agreement and when is it due to expire? It's my understanding that the mortgage company cannot lawfully terminate an existing AST before it is due to expire (don't take my word for this check with Shelter). In a lot of cases the Tenant simply pays the rent direct to the mortgage company instead of the original Landlord after the lender is given possession by the court. If the property has negative equity the mortgage company may not want it left empty while they try to sell it at auction etc so they may be happy to have the rent coming in from you to mitigate their loss (but no guarantee). I've known Tenants stay put for more than a year Shelter's advice can be relied on and they have a very good Telephone Helpline.

If it was me I would 'out' myself to the lender who has no lawful right to evict you at the moment. They probably won't discuss anything with you since they would need your Landlord's authority because you're not the borrower. But at least they would be in the know Most lenders don't turn up at court for possession proceedings unless they are being defended and your Landlord would probably have had to file his Defence by now. They usually send a local advocate who will probably not have the authority to make a deal with you on the day so best to get cracking on this as soon as.

If you haven't been given written details of your deposit being protected/insured by a Government backed scheme this suggests it hasn't. Failure to comply with the law on this point means you can sue him in the County Court for 3 x the amount of your deposit which is the current mandatory penalty over which the DJ has no discretion. Depending on when your next rent due date is you could tell your Landlord to use the deposit to cover next month's rent in lieu of making your usual payment. But you must be sure of your legal facts first because if the property isn't repossessed you will be stuck with your Landlord evevr after who may accuse you of not paying rent. Always lay a paper trail and don't do anything over the phone

it's a 12 month tenancy ending in April. i believe the fact that they didn't have the mortgage company's permission to rent out to us won't help. it would be good if we could rent from the lender while they sell it....

thanks for the hints about the deposit....i really don't think it's in a scheme because i had to tell them about the scheme, they'd never heard of it, and we've had nothing in writing

thanks everyone...food for thought xx

[Pixie]

Re: probable reposession

I haven't any advice for you Confused but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it all turns out alright for you x

[PlanB]

Re: probable reposession

it's a 12 month tenancy ending in April. i believe the fact that they didn't have the mortgage company's permission to rent out to us won't help. it would be good if we could rent from the lender while they sell it....

The fact that your Landlord didn't get permission from his lender to rent it out should have no impact on your legal right to occupy the property. That's your Landlord's problem not yours It may give Northern Rock extra grounds for repossession over and above the arears though. Two breaches of his mortgage contract are worse than one. But remember Northern Rock is owned by the tax payer and has to be squeaky clean over the way it treats people (including tenants).

When your tenancy agreement expires in April the Landlord doesn't necessarily have automatic right to take possession. You still have to be served with a section 21 Notice giving you two months notice to quit (if you pay your rent monthly or less time if you pay weekly) because you will probably become a Periodic Tenant. Even then if you don't go voluntarily the Landlord has to take you to court for possession of the property followed by bailiffs appointment (sent to you in advance so you can pack up and go), and that can take up to another 3 months. UNLESS the Landlord has already incorporated the s.21 Notice in your tenancy agreement. Letting agents often do this. So get out your AST and take it to a pro to analyse.

Tenants have more rights than people realize, but don't let the lender pull the wool over your eyes and tell you it's not true