Work have pulled a fast one here.....

[cymruambyth]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

I think it depends on the rep and the links that they have with the school as to how good they are.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

I think it depends on the rep and the links that they have with the school as to how good they are.

She does seem to know her stuff but isn't prepared to call their bluff like I would.

Oh well.... if she gets me a decent payout, I'll be happy.....

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

So was I.... There's still time for developments next week but Xmas is slowing things down for one reason or another.

Perhaps they still believe there really is a Sanity Clause?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Perhaps they still believe there really is a Sanity Clause?

They're gonna need one to stay out of special measures once this year's GCSE's are out......

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

In my experience unions are great for the masses but if you need individual support they become very reluctant to push things. I have seen a couple of people really let down by the unions they have paid into for many years - one in particular had a gross misconduct dismissal thrown out at appeal and the union rep suggested she walk away with her head held high...... no assistance for loss of earnings etc, this was a young mum falsely accused of something whose life had been devastated. I was really cross as they offered her no emotional support at all through the process and then when we put a case together for her appeal just patted her on her back and suggested she went on her way! Needless to say we didn't leave it there but she had to fight her own corner even though she had paid her "dues" for several years to the union.

I am assuming you are still on full pay whilst on sick; if so, make the most of it - more time for them to pay for their incompetence and another example of unreasonable behaviour! Each month you are on sick pay (as long as its full pay) buys you more time to find a job IYKWIM.

Head up lovely - you have won the battle now lets look forward to the war

Jane x

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

In my experience unions are great for the masses but if you need individual support they become very reluctant to push things. I have seen a couple of people really let down by the unions they have paid into for many years - one in particular had a gross misconduct dismissal thrown out at appeal and the union rep suggested she walk away with her head held high...... no assistance for loss of earnings etc, this was a young mum falsely accused of something whose life had been devastated. I was really cross as they offered her no emotional support at all through the process and then when we put a case together for her appeal just patted her on her back and suggested she went on her way! Needless to say we didn't leave it there but she had to fight her own corner even though she had paid her "dues" for several years to the union.

I am assuming you are still on full pay whilst on sick; if so, make the most of it - more time for them to pay for their incompetence and another example of unreasonable behaviour! Each month you are on sick pay (as long as its full pay) buys you more time to find a job IYKWIM.

Head up lovely - you have won the battle now lets look forward to the war

Jane x

Thanks Jane..... The only thing the union has been good for so far is negotiating on my behalf but even that is still an assumption at the moment because I don't know what they're offering yet. I sent loads of email evidence across to the union person last week, including an independent report stating that I had an acute stress disorder as a result of working conditions but the union person has hardly given any reference to that at all. I have now gone past the 3 month period for raising a grievance and going ahead with legal action.... and although I didn't want to go down this route because it's a potentially a long-winded one.... I did think that she could have used my evidence as leverage to get a good settlement out of them, or even to push for a transfer/secondment into the main school.

It does feel at times as though I've been tossed onto the scrap heap by the union as well..... If the settlement is cr*p, then I'm going to be the loser and this is not sitting well with me at the moment and if I don't accept the settlement, then I'll be back in that workplace eventually, although the boss will have to make some changes to facilitate that. When I last spoke to the union person, I was told that the normal offer is 2-3 months gross salary.... but I am under contract until April, so that's rubbish and I politely said that.

I can't make any decisions until I know what that settlement is going to be.... and so it drags on.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

I take it that the union is UWT rather than NUT?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Ok... an update..... and I am fuming!!

The union phoned and said there was an email detailing an offer, which on the face of it might have been acceptable. When I turned on the laptop however, I opened a "work" email (presumably sent in error) and seen an internal post advertised where for a "Development Leader with TLR 2a or equivalent" (extra pay attached) and I am furious. I have been doing this role with no extra pay with these and other courses for some time with NO extra pay and my boss is well aware of this.

When I raised this with him by email back in February as part of the work overload that contributed to it being a "burnout job" and being signed off with work-based stress the first time (the union has a copy of that email), I was fobbed off and the situation continued with additional courses being given to me, sometimes with little notice, no scheme of work in place and so on - meaning that I and another colleague had to stumble our way through it all with the calibre of students I've mentioned already in front of us. He knew I that I had the assessor qualification and has used me on the cheap to suit his own agenda for the past 2 years..

Since I have been off this time and unlikely to return, he has now realised that there is no-one to co-ordinate these kind of courses and is advertising a proper paid role in recognition of these additional responsibilities. I know this is a knee-jerk reaction to what I've just read and I need to calm down but I am seriously thinking of raising a grievance against this man and copying it to the Director.

The amount offered is equivalent to less than 4 months gross salary and considerably less than what I could receive by raising a grievance and continuing with sick pay; even paid at half its current value. After reading the email I have just seen this morning, I'm inclined to reject his offer and go back to my GP instead.

I will come up with an alternative figure at some point but I am too angry to do this at the moment..... but have emailed the union lady with the above and told her not to ring me back today and I will email again when I have calmed down....

[cymruambyth]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Ouch. This is way out of my knowledge, you need Jane back! There may be something to do with constructive dismissal. You boss is a ******. Have you spoken to an employment lawyer? You need to play hardball, just within the rules.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Ouch. This is way out of my knowledge, you need Jane back! There may be something to do with constructive dismissal. You boss is a ******. Have you spoken to an employment lawyer? You need to play hardball, just within the rules.

I've not spoken to an employment solicitor because of the 3 month rule about bringing any action. Also, I was hoping not to have to drag this out legally anyway....

I want him to increase that offer in consideration of the extra I should have got for 2 years, so I'll need to go off and work that out so that the union person can get back in touch with him. The beauty of negotiations now is that they all have to be in email form, so he might shit his pants if I'm lucky....

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

The beauty of negotiations now is that they all have to be in email form, so he might shit his pants if I'm lucky....

Why?

Have you been reduced to taking in washing?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Why?

Have you been reduced to taking in washing?

I wouldn't wash his pants for anything CC..... lol

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Ok.... this one's for Jane when she logs back in....

I've sat and thought about the offer and have done some calculations. It would appear that the offer equates to the precise net amount I would be entitled to if sick pay continued through to exhaustion. No consideration has been given to the work-based stress caused by having additional responsibilities given to me over a long period of time and/or, my boss being well aware of the stress caused by work overload, student behaviour and/or a psychologist's report diagnosing me with an acute stress disorder.

The boss is now advertising a post which carries an additional TLR 2a payment in recognition of someone else taking on these responsibilities. This may or not have something to do with an advisor being sent into the school for two days last week to observe classes and make recommendations.

In light of this, I would like to push for the offer to be increased as some kind of compensation for the injustice and subsequent illness that has followed..... and for not going ahead with a grievance. If not, I feel that I have no alternative but to raise a formal grievance to include this latter incident as well.

I need to know if I have a realistic chance of pulling this off or not.... Can he withdraw that offer? If so, where would that leave me? My gut reaction tells me I have nothing to lose by pushing for an increase as there's nothing to state it's a "final" offer..... but I need to get the grounds for that increase worded properly before emailing my union again.

Why the hell hasn't the union spotted this anyway?! No need to answer..... I've worked that out already.....

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

OK, first things first, you are right this is negotiation and its their opening offer.... you are not obligated to take it. Secondly, is it your job they are advertising? This is important - if you can prove they are advertising your role whilst you are still in post, albeit signed off sick if they are not advertising it as temporary then they have just made a big boob They have constructively dismissed you.....

So they open with your remaining sick pay - you go back and detail that you believe they are advertising your role before you have had a chance to consider all your options and whilst you are under the care of occupational health and a sick note. I would be inclined to go back with a counteroffer of their £8K listing it as your remaining sick pay - and a settlement payment to avoid you taking them to tribunal for constructive dismissal, with a nominal amount added for the distress they have caused due to their lack of management. Start high - they can then knock you down but if you list it as two separate amounts they would be hard pressed to reduce their original offer.

So you need to think hard as to what you think is reasonable as a lump sum settlement - if it was me I would think a further 3 months gross pay would be reasonable to be paid free of tax and Ni and then in addition I would add the enhanced payment (if that is listed in the job ad) for the role you have been doing for the months you have been doing it - so say it was an additional £300 a month you have been doing this for 12 months I would list the calculatioin £300 x 12 = £3600 to bring you up to the correct backdated pay rate. Do you know if other people carrying out this role in the same education authority would get this enhancement? (equal pay issues ).

Obviously I don't know the exact figures you are looking at but I think you should be looking nearer £20K than £8K.

Shout if you need me.

Jane x

[oscar]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Sounds good to me!

Could have done with advice to your level (nearly) 5 years ago!