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  • #1

    MCE & transfer of CCJ

    Background

    MCE Portfolio Ltd have had an application ordered by the courts to transfer ownership of a CCA debt for which a CCJ was orderd nearly 6yrs ago.

    The debt was originally HFCs and they ping'd me when I knew nothing about the CCA or the processes we now know to be required to ensure that they can take this step, hence I did not defend the case which I would do if this happened these days.

    Since that time the debt has been assigned to Pheonix recoveries in 2008 and now as of 2012 assigned by court order to MCE.

    I have made all my payments as ordered by the CCJ over the last 6 years to agents of HFC as to do otherwise I'd be in breach of the original order.

    Phoenix has occasionally contacted me requesting I make payments direct to them and not HFC lawyers, I respond with I am complying with the terms of the court order and that they should contact HFC lawyers to recover the monies if they were entitled to them.

    I received the court order dated 9 Jan 12 but not did not receive a copy of the paperwork from MCE which was dated 19 Dec 11. Effectively I had no warning of this action and therefore have been a bit blind sided and unable to put up a defence.

    The order contained paperwork that MCE depended on in their application mainly these were a couple of letters to me in 2008 and redacted copies of the deeds of assignment from HFC to Pheonix and Pheonix to MCE.

    It did not contain a copy of the agreement or any of the other per-requisite notices for taking court action e.g.

    My question

    Do I have grounds for having the judgement set aside on the basis:

    1. I wasn't sent/did not receive a copy of the application or any warning of a court date and hence had no opportunity to submit a defense.

    2. The application did not contain a copy of the original CCA or other per-requite notices.

    3. Is it worth the trouble as the CCJ is nearly 6 years old and will be off my record this year?

    any help/advice/comments welcome?
    Tags: 2012, action, advice, agents, benefit, breach, cca, ccj, charging order, con, costs, court, court action, courts, creditor, creditors, date, debt, defence, documents, doorstep, errors, failed, firm, help, law, letter, letters, n244, pay, payments, set aside, simply be, thank you, warning, withdraw
  • #2
    Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

    To answer number three first, it would be worth the trouble if you think that by getting the judgment set aside you would have your payments, or a proportion thereof, returned. If, had they done everything by the book, they would still have got the CCJ despite any defence you may put up, then only you can really decide whether for the sake of a few months it's worth the work.

    As regards your first points I would have thought you do have grounds to apply to have it set aside given correct procedures were not followed.

    Sadly there seem to be more and more of these judgments being awarded where the debtor knows absolutely nothing about anything until the judgment arrives on their doorstep.

    If you do decide to go ahead, Form N244 is the one you need.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

      Thanls for the response, I phoned the courts they told me to write a letter which I've done detailing my objections and requesting the court sets aside the order. so wait an see is the order of the day.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

        Originally posted by frisp View Post
        Background

        MCE Portfolio Ltd have had an application ordered by the courts to transfer ownership of a CCA debt for which a CCJ was orderd nearly 6yrs ago.

        The debt was originally HFCs and they ping'd me when I knew nothing about the CCA or the processes we now know to be required to ensure that they can take this step, hence I did not defend the case which I would do if this happened these days.

        Since that time the debt has been assigned to Pheonix recoveries in 2008 and now as of 2012 assigned by court order to MCE.

        I have made all my payments as ordered by the CCJ over the last 6 years to agents of HFC as to do otherwise I'd be in breach of the original order.

        Phoenix has occasionally contacted me requesting I make payments direct to them and not HFC lawyers, I respond with I am complying with the terms of the court order and that they should contact HFC lawyers to recover the monies if they were entitled to them.

        I received the court order dated 9 Jan 12 but not did not receive a copy of the paperwork from MCE which was dated 19 Dec 11. Effectively I had no warning of this action and therefore have been a bit blind sided and unable to put up a defence.

        The order contained paperwork that MCE depended on in their application mainly these were a couple of letters to me in 2008 and redacted copies of the deeds of assignment from HFC to Pheonix and Pheonix to MCE.

        It did not contain a copy of the agreement or any of the other per-requisite notices for taking court action e.g.

        My question

        Do I have grounds for having the judgement set aside on the basis:

        1. I wasn't sent/did not receive a copy of the application or any warning of a court date and hence had no opportunity to submit a defense.

        2. The application did not contain a copy of the original CCA or other per-requite notices.

        3. Is it worth the trouble as the CCJ is nearly 6 years old and will be off my record this year?

        any help/advice/comments welcome?

        This is an ex-parte application to amend the Judgment creditor, so it seems to me to have been done correctly. Indeed you would be in breach of the Court order if you failed to pay the Claimant the monthly amounts, which is of course Contempt of Court. The creditor who has been assigned the benefit of the judgment must apply for substitution.

        The fact that the app was not accompanied by any other documents has no merit whatsoever. The agreement merges with the Judgment, thus no obligations to disclosure the agreement where there is a judgment in place. The obligations of disclosure are set out in the CPR during the course of proceedings not after them.


        I think trying to set aside a 6 year old CCJ which has been paid has as much prospects as finding a Dodo bird that can fly in reality. if you did apply, you would face the Claimant - Judgment creditors costs of defending the application in my view and those costs could add £1500 to £2k to the judgment sum.

        My advice would simply be let sleeping dogs lie, if the Creditor is substituted then pay the new substituted creditor the monthly instalment, remember he cannot enforce the judgment by way of a charging order if an instalment order is being paid

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

          Thanks Paul, really not trying to get the thing set aside tho' if I could go back 6 yrs I wouldn't have got it. I'll let sleeping dogs lie on that one.

          The procedural errors of getting a court order without any warning just annoyed me a little bit, so I decided to tweek Mortimer C beards a wee bit by requesting the order be set aside as I wasn't offered the opportunity of a defense or such like and to have sight of the agreement which I would have asked for had I been given the opportunity.

          Lets see what the judge says he may order the thing set aside and MC will just have to resubmit, the inconvenience and cost to them will have been worth it.

          not tilting at windmills

          thanks again

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

            Got a court date to hear my objection. Is there any guidance or law that states they must send me copies of their application prior to the case being heard in court.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

              Originally posted by Paul. View Post
              I think trying to set aside a 6 year old CCJ which has been paid has as much prospects as finding a Dodo bird that can fly in reality.
              If that.

              As for Raphus cucullatus flying, that would depend on how hard it was kicked.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

                CC can we not be clever and just answer my question - namely - Is there any guidance or law that states they must send me copies of their application prior to the case being heard in court.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

                  Originally posted by frisp View Post
                  CC can we not be clever and just answer my question - namely - Is there any guidance or law that states they must send me copies of their application prior to the case being heard in court.
                  None of which I'm aware and, besides, who you pay should hardly make as much difference as would a redetermination of how much you pay.

                  I'd be inclined to withdraw my objection, as there may be a risk of the assigned claimant being given a 'forthwith' judgement for whatever sum may still remain to be paid.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

                    ^^^ see when you do help; it's good help.

                    Thanks - clear and concise to the layman (maybe we need to start being firm with CC like frisp was. That seems to of worked)!

                    Cheers CC

                    Best of luck frisp, hope you get this sorted.
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                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

                      Originally posted by Never-In-Doubt View Post
                      ^^^ see when you do help; it's good help.

                      Thanks - clear and concise to the layman (maybe we need to start being firm with CC like frisp was. That seems to of worked)!

                      Cheers CC
                      I was responding to what Paul had posted but believed it would be better for someone more knowledgeable than myself to answer frisp's question.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: MCE & transfer of CCJ

                        Thank you Mr Cloggs, I may just follow your advice after I've done a wee bit more digging.

                        Comment

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