Late payment charges

[realfedup]

i have been trying to navigate my way around the site, reading up and getting a better understanding of this debt minefield.


i would like to start with what some might consider a small(er) issue - for me its a matter of principle


i originally and unwittingly held all my finances (current account/savings/mortgage etc) with the one institution lloyds tsb/C&G. i have subsequently opened an alternative current account with an alternative bank.


Mortgage default charges/late fees etc
like so many other over the past few years i too have fallen into financial difficulty, and fallen behind with my payments, subsequently incurring default charges of £35 a pop, late payment fees etc. i didn't actually realise that i could challenge these payments because they have been deemed unfair or unlawful (i think) because the true admin costs are far less.


i did originally complain to the mortgage company, who sent me a paltry ‘goodwill payment of £100 which they say drew a line under my complaint and which for some reason they paid into my dormant(?) savings account which has not been used for some years due to me having cleared out the account apart from a couple of pounds due to need. i should also add that C&G put default charges etc onto my mortgage account after a formal written arrangement was in place for me to try to catch up with the missed payments even though ever since the arrangement has been in place not one payment has been missed and the payments are made at the same time each month.


On discovering that the payment was made to the dormant account via an annual statement i wrote to the branch manager requesting that he close the account (which is now useless to me, as i have no spare money) and transfer the funds in that account to the mortgage account


My questions are
is it to late for me to go back, having now discovered that i could ask for all the defaults etc be refunded especially the default/late payment/interest charges post formal arrangement and/or even those pre formal arrangement


Or is it the case that because i have now tried to instruct the bank to transfer the funds from the dormant savings account to the mortgage account i have seemingly accepted the ‘goodwill’ payment and therefore cannot ask for a review? i never formally acknowledged the goodwill payment, or referred to it as such in my request to have the amount transferred or even agreed from my side of things (formally or otherwise) that the matter was now closed!


Also having tried to instruct the branch manager to close the savings account and transfer the funds to date he has refused without giving reason, and seems minded not to reply to me at all even though i have threatened to take the matter further, but not sure if it should be someone else in the bank or ombudsman!


Its wonderful that those more experienced in dealing with debt matters are willing to share their experience and advice, it is so unbelievably useful and i am very grateful indeed.


My thanks in advance

[Pixie]

Re: Late payment charges

I think it would be too late to complain about the late payment charges etc after you've accepted a goodwill payment but someone else my know differently. How long ago is it that you received the goodwill payment?

And I really don't know why the manager won't close your savings account!

[SXGuy]

Re: Late payment charges

When you say dormant savings account, are you saying you cant access the savings account to withdraw the money? if not, then why cant you just withdraw it and leave the account dormant?

[realfedup]

Re: Late payment charges

Hi, and thank you for responding


OK, is it accepted because it was automatically paid into the savings account, or because i asked for the money in the savings account to be transferred which by default meant that i had inadvertently accepted it?


i was afraid to approach the bank in person, just in case i was embarrassed by a cashier either telling me i would need to discuss the matter with them behind closed doors or even worse being told over the counter that i cant have access to it because (….whatever reason they choose)


but this is a step i will have to face up to. The account is that old, i no longer have a pass book or anything, so was not sure of how about withdrawing it.


C&G transferred the money to the savings account last year. C&G didn't tell me where they had sent the money, and i only found out by opening an annual statement for the savings account earlier this year and put 2 and 2 together, following on from which i wrote to the bank asking they do the transfer without me having to go in - wish i hadn't now.


i refer to the account as dormant only because it has not been used for many years - a downturn in my financial circumstance due to illness has meant that i had not money to save or now any prospect of. i am not sure what the correct terminology is so i apologise if ‘dormant’ is misleading.


i would rather not have any unessential accounts open with the bank. i am now looking at frighting back, and have read about ‘off setting’ which takes away the choice of which debt i may decide to prioritise:-(

[SXGuy]

Re: Late payment charges

Do you have a copy of the letter which they sent you about the good will payment? We would need to look at the wording as to whether accepting it stops you from continuing to claim the charges. Sometimes a payment is made in goodwill because you have been disheartened with the way they have treated you, rather than as a payment to shut up about it. So you may still be able to claim it. In regards to withdrawing the money,simply providing id and a brief explanation that you have lost your pass book should be enough to move it. Cashier is not going to know anything in respect of your issues and is likely to not even care. I think perhaps you are over thinking the situation.

[realfedup]

Re: Late payment charges

Hi SX

i will re read the process link on how to upload the C&G letter and post on here.

in the meantime i am sure you are right about me overthinking, i do it all the time, which is why it is so good now to have a safe place to be able to discuss these things, and someone respond with checks and balances instead of having them going around and around in my head.

Regards

[realfedup]

Re: Late payment charges

Hi SX


the scanner thing will not co operate. i will have to get my daughter to have a look at it when she visits, she is better at this sort of thing.


the letter from C&G 2.5 sides of A4, so for the time being and if you don't mind i will just type out what i think is the relevant part that you are referring to..


‘to resolve your complaint, by way of apology for the poor service received, i have credited your bank account with £100. please allow up to five working days for the funds too clear. This is made up of a)a payment for distress and inconvenience b)a refund of premiums


i didn't have a bank account with them at the times so didn't understand what they were referring to. completely forgotten about the savings account as it wasn't being used!


i am not sure what they mean by premiums.


the letter also states the following


‘with regards to your concerns regarding the fees and charges applied to your mortgage account, having reviewed your account i confirm that our arrears reminders and associated charges are justified in accordance with our collections policy and procedures….’


‘…and in line with the terms and conditions of your mortgage account, which you agreed to when you took out the mortgage. under the terms and condition of your mortgage we are entitled to recover any cost that we incur in taking the appropriate action to recover your arrears. therefore as it was necessary to issue letters, due to the arrears present upon your account the costs associated with this action are justified and will not be refunded,


they then go on to say that i have 6 months to take it to the omb if i am not happy. The 6 months have just run out. However i have a further complaint because subsequent to this goodwill letter C&G put further ‘arrears management fees’ onto my account. in complete frustration i then wrote to their financial director who i was told was Darren Pope to date this rude man has not bothered to reply to my recorded delivery letter.


admittedly they may have a point when i initially defaulted, but this was for a period of 2 months after which i acted told them i was unwell and my income affected. from that point arrangements were made which i was just about able to keep to - managing never to miss a single payment, even if it meant some days i only eat once that day. C&G added the default amounts to the total so it’s now (i thought) spread over the remaining time on the mortgage.


their complaint is that i changed the payment day in the month from the 2nd of the month to the end of the month when i first defaulted, but i paid money into the account as soon as i had some. why would i wait until the 2nd if i had the money together to make a payment on the 29th? you would think i would have appeased them by making a payment early - or does it not work like that? As the arrangement was made after what they say was the change of date i would have thought the arrangement would have taken that into account anyway.


am i overthinking again? - i just cant see it

[SXGuy]

Re: Late payment charges

hmm. ok firstly, im not an expert, but another mod who is will likely make a comment.

From what ive seen, and this is purely my opinion.

Yes it looks like the £100 was a payment for goodwill and distress, however you do only have 6 months from then to take it to the ombudsman. It has to be a fresh complaint in order to do anything further. Arrears management fees, if they were not included in your original complaint then you can take this route.

You will likely need to send a final respose on the matter to them and give them 28 days to respond, if they do not, then take it to the ombudsman.

And lastly, i always believed that if you change your mortgage payment date to another day within the same month, there should be no charge for this, a few extra days will likely be added to the end of your term though.

In regards to defaults and charges, even if you have an arrangement, they are allowed to do this, firstly any payment below the contractual amount, means that you have defaulted on the terms. While they may be happy to accept reduce payments, its still not the agreed amount in your terms and thus a default is issued. The remainder of whats owed, was added back on if i understand correctly, which i believe they have been fair about. Because they could have and would have been within their rights to terminate your agreement and demand the whole lot once you missed the min payments.

[realfedup]

Re: Late payment charges

Hi again SX

Many thanks for responding so quickly.

i wish i could work the scanner thingy as it may be easier to show you entire letters and/or attachments.


i have info sheets that came with default/management fee letters that state (from C&G)


'we do not charge a fee for every letter we send you, for instance the first time we write to you will not incur a fee. if you enter into an arrangement with us to repay your arrears we will not charge you this fee while you keep to that arrangement. we will always notify you by letter of any arrears management fee added to your account’.


my only point was that there is an arrangement - some sort of consolidation agreement, which i had to sign and return to them. Since the arrangement not a single payments has been missed, yet i still incurred these charges hence my initial complaint and good will payment. additionally since the good will letter which is subsequent to the consolidation arrangement C&G have continued to charge me both default and arrears management fees:-(


so i guess my next step could be to write again challenging the arrears management fees(?) and leaving aside the default fees(?) because they have a right to put these default amounts and interest on my account.


OK. i’ve given it some thought. i take your point that they could have called in the total monies owed - i don't have it, and with my credit rating in tatters its unlikely another lender will go anywhere near me:-(


Your independent response SX has made me feel somewhat calmer about the situation. you have indicated that they (C&G) have in some regard acted fairly, which is a bit of a relief, so I'm happy to put this on the back burner for now and get on with my UE diaries and joining the Lowell support group for my other debts.


i am sincerely grateful for your input SX - expert or not:-)

Rfu

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Late payment charges

they then go on to say that i have 6 months to take it to the omb if i am not happy. The 6 months have just run out. However i have a further complaint because subsequent to this goodwill letter C&G put further ‘arrears management fees’ onto my account. in complete frustration i then wrote to their financial director who i was told was Darren Pope to date this rude man has not bothered to reply to my recorded delivery letter.

Perhaps Pope Darren believes in Papal infallibility?