Niddy vs HSBC

[billypre]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Always nice to see a niddy special lol

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Always nice to see a niddy special lol

They seem to get cheekier when it's my own stuff, but that's only cos I don't care and will beat them with my hands tied back and blindfolded - chuffin muppets, the lot of em!

[Deepie]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC


You can just picture it when they read that letter

[peter]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Excellent response. I guess this will just be passed to another DCA in a few months time?

[MrsD]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

new levels of muppetry

you've got a lovely turn of phrase!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Excellent response. I guess this will just be passed to another DCA in a few months time?

I hope not - it's not a debt as such!

I will start issuing proceedings if necessary, they really don't wanna go down that route with me!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Awesome - HSBC have done the impossible and defaulted me with no warning, whilst the whole account and closure is in dispute - no DN received, nada!

Look at the actual default date - bloody idiots, they really are. Right, as i'd never got round to arguing this, due to being busy, its now game on!

Ooopsie - bad HSBC!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Update 29 June 2011

Update 29 June 2011

Ok, mini update - still heard nothing from HSBC however I have had a letter from Metropolitan (funny buggers) - as detailed below:
[ATTACH]1133[/ATTACH]

My response, as you can imagine, doesn't pull any punches ...

Update 11 July 2011

Response as follows! (notice how 'nice' they appear to be when they think you've got them over something......)!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

I don't doubt it but I will post a link to this thread to them if they do. Then they can decide for themselves if they want to take me on. I mean, they're gonna lose however you look at it - so it's no skin off my nose!!

Idiots, bring it on - I welcome the challenge!!

I just had a crapquest threat regards a £7k debt to skycard. Cool, cept I've never had one or anything from barclays for that fact!! I'll start a thread cos I'm gonna play daft with this and tell them my previous addresses and then act scared and offer to pay - AFTER it's beyond any doubt it wasn't me..... Then I'll get some justice

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Hi Niddy that is what HSBC done to me too. They put a DN on my credit file without any warning. They put a DN on my credit file in April 2009 and sent me a Default Notice in May 2009. So looks like your not the only one this has happened too

Unfortunately for them, i'll be one of the last it happens to though!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

One of the first things I learnt when coming to this forum is don't fuck with niddy as you will get your fingers burnt.

They will learn this by the tone of his letters if they don't they need to go back to school.

Regards

[kilasuit]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

no DN = No Default

i think thats libel aint it niddy?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Update - August 2011

Ok, it's taken a while to pull together and summarise but below is the final draft of my official complaint against HSBC Bank for their treatment of me. Enjoy reading it, it was 40 odd pages of complaint, condensed into about 8 as shown below....

-----------------------------------------------------------

Niddy v HSBC Complaint – July 2011

This complaint is extremely complex, interlaced with several areas of concern linking to another unrelated account, with which I believe HSBC have acted unlawfully.

The complaint itself is broken down into the following sections;

1. Overview & synopsis of facts
2. Account Opening
3. Account Query regards Overdraft
4. Account Query with HSBC Fraud Team
5. Account Query with SAR Information
6. Account Closure & Timing
7. Missing Information, Secrecy & Lies
8. General Confusion & Different reasons Provided
9. Credit reference Agencies
10. How to put things right

Overview & Synopsis of Facts
I banked with HBOS and decided to apply to HSBC, online. I then closed my HBOS account and started using HSBC via an arranged fee-paying account as recommended by the branch manager. They have since forced me into account closure when they knew full well I was out of the country at the time, thus lowering their standard 28 days to only 10 days; they have continued to charge an account fee 3 months after I demanded cessation; they have defaulted an account within a couple of weeks of agreeing to a informal overdraft never notifying me thus directly breaching not only OFT guidance but also ICO and CCA 1974 legislation, in particular the lack of any pre-default notice, actual default notice or consideration of my repeated attempts to get them to respond to me. They have withheld information they say is about me, yet when I query this and demand proof via Subject Access they then say it does not relate to me so cannot divulge it, but still proceed to close all my accounts anyway. They issue statements saying “I was declined due to X reason” but then in another letter they mention the reason as being Y reason yet on a SAR there is no link to any of these notes or letters; they also demand I attend a branch; something I am not required to do neither is it in their terms that I must, upon request, attend an interview and they pretty much call me daily, causing direct harassment to myself and my family.

HSBC are, to date, in direct breach of various acts, none-more-so than; s.87 (CCA1974); s.7 (DPA1998) & the OFT Guidance on debt collection.

Account Opening
I applied to HSBC for a current account in December 2008 and was declined, however upon calling telephone banking, they advised that I should attend branch with some ID and ask for them to review it. Upon appearing in person at the branch the original decline was overridden as they were happy I was not the same person that was linked via historic HSBC accounts. Part of the account opening process was that I took a fee-paying account (HSBC Plus), otherwise I would have been declined, thus leaving me no choice but to pay for banking services with HSBC even though I had, at the time, and continue to have separate life cover, mobile cover, holiday cover, breakdown cover and all other relevant elements of the packaged account thus proving that the product itself was never suitable for my needs.

At account opening an overdraft was offered of £200; this was never applied to the account and so I begun to query it at which point I learned that there was a fraud marker on my account which related back to the account opening interview as I recall the branch manager taking a full sized A4 copy of my passport and attached it to a sheet that mentioned “…. Fraud”; something I noticed and asked about at the time, thus I explained about there being someone with similar details to myself living elsewhere in the country – I did at the time have some linked addresses showing on Equifax, however HSBC confirmed they searched Experian which at that time had no link to any previous address.

Anyway, the branch manager overruled the original decline and opened the Plus Account at a cost of £12.95 per month, even though I found out later that day there was a promotion for half price for 6 months, but I was never offered this either. I was then, as at December 2008 a HSBC customer.

Account Query regards Overdraft
A few weeks later (approx. Feb 2009) I realised that the promised overdraft of £200 was not showing and so I called up about it and was told there was a fraud indicator on my account – obviously I went mad and demanded to know why, but everyone went quiet. I therefore proceeded to speak to the assistant branch manager who managed to get this fraud indicator removed; she also added the £200 overdraft and opened a second (free) account for me (the defaulted one).

The reason I knew a fraud indicator existed is because there was no option from within my accounts to apply for an overdraft, yet if they added the marker after I’d already had an overdraft, it’d read a different error. This is all relevant as it shows that HSBC cannot operate in accordance with their own terms, let alone ask me to operate in accordance with them; it also highlights the fact that these events are factual, but HSBC omitted them from within my SAR request leading me to believe they have more than one system in place now, thus alleviating set guidance to protect against such claims being made in the first place. Surely they have Governance to satisfy somewhere along the lines…?

Now, regards to this fraud marker, unbeknown to HSBC I did used to work for them, and so I am fully conversant with their systems and processes and I understand it to mean there is a fraud marker when the trigger amount is set at a trailing £5; i.e. a no lending policy would occur if someone had an overdraft for £105 or £555 whatever – if the last digit ends with a “5” then it’s basically their way of stopping the system from allowing any additional lending. My accounts after speaking to the branch, both of them at this point, had none of these markers – ergo I was able to log-in and click an option to add/amend/apply for an overdraft.

This stayed the same until October 2009 when for some reason, after applying for a loan, to renew my car, as opposed to spending my last £10k of savings, things started to turn really nasty for me with regards to my relationship with HSBC – all as a result of some manager called Lee Bouchard, who alleges to work in their Fraud Department and who further alleges he has proof I am someone else (amazing to see that).

Account Query with HSBC Fraud Team
After applying for a credit card around January 2009; I was sent a letter that stated I was declined purely as a result of not meeting the required credit score, basically as the account relationship was still so new. They clearly said if I apply in the future I’d have a greater chance of approval; yet when you consider the letter to sent to me dated 7th April 2011 by the HSBC “Head of Complaints”; his reason is entirely different – weird, considering neither of these letters appeared within my SAR Request that I made in February 2011 yet one says it was due to failed credit scoring and the other stated adverse credit (I can provide a copy of my credit report denying the latter claim as it was empty at the time bar a couple of live genuine accounts). Anyway, after applying for this loan I was then told I was accepted, then told I had been declined then told to wait for 2 weeks then told to get my credit file then told it’d been accepted again to finally get told it’d actually never been progressed as there was a fraud indicator on the account.

I specifically remember arguing with them about this as I was flying to Cuba a few days later and told them to cancel it if it wasn’t decided one way or another prior to my flying to Cuba. Typically HSBC; they confirmed the decline whilst I was out of the country; funnily enough a day earlier I received a letter from HSBC Fraud stating that my overdraft and credit card limits had been reduced, even though they KNEW I was flying out the country the next day and left me no alternative to credit the accounts back – the cheeky beggars even charged me an unauthorised overdraft fee for lowering my overdraft to below the actual overdrawn amount; similarly they done the same with the credit card. Funny thing though, they never mentioned anywhere in writing about my second bank account, which was reduced from £700 to £505 (note the end trailing digit - i.e. number 5?) - In fact to date I’ve never really been told about this overdraft being reduced and there is no correspondence within my SAR clarifying this either. Anyway, long story short; they lowered the limits on everything to below the current balance thus resulting in late payment charges etc. being applied to my accounts. I argued for removal and was constantly rebuffed as a result of Lee Bouchards continual involvement.

Mr Bouchard requested that I attend a branch interview, and I told him straight to get lost as I did not have the time nor did I want to be interrogated by a bank manager who earned less money than me and was less qualified than me with a lesser degree of dignity than myself, the thought horrified me and I told him as such. He didn’t like this and pretty much accused me of lying, I therefore demanded written correspondence so as to alleviate any further abuse of process by this individual.

So, the end result here was around November 2009 Mr Bouchard requested I answer 4 points, which I did, yet he still demanded I attend a branch even when I told him I was only 10 months into my relationship and so the account interview at inception was suffice, being the branch manager knew me anyway and already conducted a fraud test - as did the fraud manager Siobhan Rowe 4 months earlier, when my application for a credit card was successfully appealed back in June 2009; i.e. 5 months after initially being declined due to failed credit score (version one) or adverse data (version 2) - depends on whom you believe depends on the real original reason for declination really doesn’t it? I’m only the 4th point yet hopefully by now you’ll already start to see a clear pattern evolve…?

The attached copies will clearly show that on 30th November 2009 Mr Bouchard requested I respond to 4 questions, I did so on 26 January 2010 (I was out of the country thus the delay); to which he again responded to me on 28th January 2010 saying the same as he said in November even though I answered his questions; note it also took from October 1st to 28th January to get the £25 charge refunded for the unlawful fee added back in October when they removed the limits.

Things do, unfortunately, start to go downhill from here-on-in and I can only apologise in advance for the following explanations as not only are they extremely confusing but they are also extremely long due to the amount of errors, the illegal activity, the fraudulent manner in which HSBC retain and hide data and their overall unlawful conduct by way of deceiving the Lending Code and other regulatory bodies.

Account Query with SAR Information
As a result of the above I got on with opening a new account elsewhere and was ready to move banks when In thought I’d just leave things, and see what happens next based on the fact HSBC think I am someone else (with a different name to boot); however things kind of went quiet for the next year and so I decided not to pursue things and let them go, based on the fact it’d been over a year ago since I last made any sort of contact, however all this was about to change when in January 2011 I ran out of cheques and wondered why no cheque books had been sent to me, I had ran out of both books – one for each current account. When I queried this I learned that I was not going to be sent one, to which I complained and miraculously the branch then phoned me and confirmed they’d hand deliver them to me at my home address over the next few days. To say I was astonished is putting it lightly, I even queried at the time why they would do this when they can order them and send in the post like they had done so for everything else, including sending cards and replacement cards and the original cheque books. I was never provided an answer as to why the branch manager wanted to hand deliver the cheque books to me at my home address.

Thus, In February I requested a SAR from HSBC and was lined up with someone called Sue Hancock in HSBC’s Data Protection Department. She proceeded to try and force me to collect the SAR from branch, to which I declined and requested postal delivery as per Data Protection Principles. So, I open the SAR and start reading, all I can see is a continual improvement of behaviour score, ie it starts at 0 and works up to 100 with 100 being the highest, a score of say over 60 would normally pre-approve a product such as a bank account with a cheque card (prior to the removal of the CGS) yet my score was always between 60 and 70 which is classed as a normal, good customer. My SAR also showed I had ample pre-approved limits thus dispelling any claim made by HSBC that I had adverse markers, this was simply not true plus my credit file confirms as such, so they have obviously linked me to another customer with a similar name, which is nothing to do with me.

Upon closure of reading the 800 page SAR; there was no mention of anything to do with this other person, there was no mention of any dealings with Lee Bouchard and there was no record anywhere of my account being in an “account review” as at October 2009, something claimed to be the case by numerous HSBC employees (as attached proof confirms). This is extremely relevant because based on Mr Bouchards letter to me plus the response from the “Head of Customer Services” they seem to both admit that they have documentary evidence suggesting they have a copy of my passport (I bet the number will be different as I lost a passport back in 2006/2007) so my simple response back to them was fine, please show me the passport then and also send me the relevant stuff with my SAR. The Head then turns round in his reply to me dated 7th April 2011 and says that Sue Hancock will not send me the related data as it is not me and thus a breach of DPA. Ok, is it just me that is confused by this? They closed my account down because I refused to go into branch over 18 months previously, all as a result of my asking awkward questions relating to the SAR and associated “fictitious link” that they seem to think exists. Something just aint right, either it is me or it isn’t and in one breath I have the Head saying he stands by Mr Bouchard because they have a photo (wow – how lucky are they! They had better protect it cos if that’s what they are relying on they are in for a huge shock) and yet in the next paragraph I have him admit that they won’t send me the data because it is not about me.

There are several other flaws within the response sent by this “Head of…”. I demanded within my letter dated 11th April that he explain some of his actions, all were ignored. I mean, other than the already relevant point above, there are others such as my previous appeal of credit card which was looked at by an underwriter and whom was also satisfied that I was someone different, then you have the SAR carry on, then you have the claim that they have no evidence I was forced into opening a fee paying account, but where is the proof that they did not do this? I cannot prove it any more than they can, other than explain that in the circumstances, based on previous complaints made, HSBC have done this before and based on my being able to provide any proof you want to show I was adequately covered with a better policy that I pay for elsewhere; something doesn’t add up – especially not considering they did originally decline me then change their minds in branch.

Something stinks here, it really does.

Account Closure & Timing
As a result of my constant nagging at HSBC to provide proof and/or additional information backing their claims; I suddenly returned from holiday to find a letter dated 11th March 2011 stating they were closing my accounts; however prior to going on holiday, I sent a secure message from online banking as per their terms and conditions, stipulating that I would be out of the country from 10th – 30th March and would like my cards activated for Cuba, they responded confirming this had been actioned so they categorically KNEW that I was not there to act, and lost out on 19 days of the 28 allowed prior to closure, as per the banks own terms and conditions, notwithstanding the guidance within the Banking Code (Lending Standards).

The timing, the way they went about things and the overall experience since I requested chequebooks has been nothing short of shambolic. It is clear and evident that HSBC have taken umbrage to my claim that they have dodgy managers whom stick together, proof is in the pudding in that throughout all correspondence, HSBC have replied within a day or two of receiving my letter yet here we are, when it comes to account closure they ignore me! I replied to this letter on 29th March 2011 clearly stating my desire to cancel the fee paying account but for some reason, letters since this date (up to as recent as July 2011) keep arriving with new charges, which I can only presume is this monthly fee – yet more proof that HSBC simply do not listen to their customers. A copy of this letter is also attached for your perusal.

HSBC unlawfully sanctioned closure of my accounts in the full knowledge that I was out of the country, and would have been so before they sent their initial letter which was dated 11th March 2011 thus meaning I was never able to fully utilise the 28 days afforded to me by their own terms, however the main fact remains that they acted unlawfully as they still maintain they wish to close my account due to my refusal to visit a branch which I am not under any obligation to do, as they have a photo of me which means I must be a previous customer yet when probed for information on this, they decline citing I am not that person, but then they write saying they “know” I am that person? It’s not only confusing, insulting and down right ignorant it is also bordering illegal practices. It is psychological harassment at its best – head-f*ck me so I can’t think straight, is that the plan here? I have spent the last 7 weeks compiling this totally unnecessary response all because a fraud manager got a hunch, that I have previously on two separate occasions within the same 12 month accounting period, PROVED him to be incorrect with these wild accusations. Once to the branch manager in December 2008 and again to the Underwriter in May 2009 so why, in November 2009 did Lee Bouchard need me to again, go into the branch with my passport? It’s absolutely ludicrous – it really is!

Missing Information, Secrecy & Lies
As explained throughout, it is quite evident that HSBC are hiding information from me, thus also directly deceiving the ICO and the DPA. I have asked on numerous occasion for them to confirm their reasons, these change from person to person (as outlined within this letter); then we have the head of customer services saying they have a photo so I must be someone else (classic – that will be on our forum later this week for all to laugh at as ‘quote of the week’) but when pushed, they come back at me with “sorry we’re closing your account” and when I query the ethics employed throughout account closure, they lock up and ignore me all the while adding derogatory data against me, refusing to contact me to arrange a suitable repayment method, adding unlawful charges that should have stopped back in April and generally being a right royal pain. They have also defaulted one of the bank accounts within 2 weeks of account closure, without any forewarning let alone the statutory notice not being sent – yet they have added a default notice against me (May 2011), but how is this possible when as recently as 13th July they confirm my account is still live?

General Confusion & Different reasons provided
As you can see, from reading any of HSBC’s replies to me, they not only contradict each other but it is obvious they are making things up, covering other things up and using a notes system that is not being presented within any SAR. This allows them to employ unethical tactics, such as in this case, whereby they can pinpoint a previously good standing customer for almost 3 years, and force them into a much worse off position. Prior to the account closure, I had never bounced a payment, I had never wrote a cheque I couldn’t pay, I had never had any charge applied to any of my accounts nor had I ever been subject to any formal notice or warning. My point being, if they thought I was someone else or whatever their real reason, surely the fact I’d conducted myself and my accounts in such an impeccable manner suggested they made a mistake somewhere?

HSBC continually change their reasons, I have attached a load of letters for you to digest, these show you that we not only have differing answers but we also see a clear pattern of lender / customer bullying and harassment. They have also unlawfully closed my account knowing full well I would not know about it for at least 2 weeks as I was out of the country, something they request and something they responded to.

They have been charging me a monthly fee on a closed account, albeit yes there is a balance; however I requested this become a free account back in April, yet as a result of them charging the fee it has pushed this over the overdraft. They’ve defaulted me on one of my current accounts within a month of apparently closing it, yet agreed to an informal overdraft (to pay their own charges) a month after closure... They never notified me nor have they issued a default notice in line with s.87 CCA1974. I never requested an informal anything! They have ignored all reasonable attempts to contact me, which was a chaser letter once a month for the last 3 months, however they have all went ignored. It is as though HSBC have washed their hands with me, yet they still want repaying?

They have also sold the other current account to Metropolitan Collection agency, unfortunately for them I am now going to start charging them for any further communication as they have no right to any of my personal information based on the level of dispute and the subsequent actions of HSBC as a whole, since I argued about the lack of cheque books and the fraud marker being applied to my account, back in January 2011. Had I never asked for a cheque book or requested the marker be removed, then I’d probably still be banking with HSBC – what they have done over the last 7 months is nothing short of shambolic.

Credit Reference Agencies
HSBC added a default against me – in relation to my second current account that was opened in February 2010. I was never notified of this, nor did they reply to my genuine dispute nor have they given me any time to remedy the breach, in line with standard operating process when dealing with s.87 / s.88 CCA(1974). As a result of this failing, a complaint to the ICO has been made a copy of this, a copy is also attached. HSBC adding this unlawful marker has now left me in an awkward position in that I am being refused credit as a result of this data, therefore it has made it harder for me to transfer the total balances to a new card, ideally at 0%. As such, I expect all future interest across all accounts to be suspended until such time I can obtain a 0% card from the same lender that just refused me, at the same rate/deal.

The unlawful entry should also be removed immediately as should the other late payment markers linked to the credit card.

How to put things right
To put things right, HSBC would need to sell up to a foreign investor and take their existing staff and send them to sea – however that dream is unlikely to occur so realistically, all I want is for things to be retrospectively corrected to before the account closure, to allow me a reasonable defence based on the banks owns terms and my legal rights as a consumer. HSBC should also remove all derogatory data from the credit agencies, reopen all my accounts and remove all charges and account fees charged since last usage by myself, in which all accounts were well within their limits.

I should then be entitled to argue my own case that HSBC are incorrect about any assumption as to my identity, I have proved myself twice already and also attach several letters from other fools that have made similar mistakes and learned that they are dealing with an innocent party. HSBC should also formally apologise for their treatment of me and make an extremely large offer of recompense based on varying factors throughout culminating in this lengthy Ombudsman complaint, that should have been totally avoidable had the bank followed their own terms, something I had done (factually) for almost 3yrs until they snatched that away from me for no reason whatsoever. I also want HSBC to put-up or shut-up and either drop their ridiculous claim that a photo suggests I am someone else otherwise they need to respond properly to my SAR request and provide the missing data plus copies of all internal and otherwise, notes that had ever been used mentioning my person. In any case they should be reprimanded for their underhand and unlawful tactics surrounding personal information, as their actions are unforgiveable. I also expect them to reconsider my claim for mis-sale of a packaged account, prior to escalation of this as a separate issue within the same complaint here.

I attach with this complaint various documents, if you require anything mentioned that is not attached then HSBC will be able to provide copies as they have removed my online access where a lot of internal messages were saved, such messages include my complaint in January regards to the replacement chequebook fiasco whereby a branch manager hand delivered them to my home address. HSBC ought to also read to my initial complaint about being forced to take a fee-paying account in exchange for acceptance. Although not directly mentioned in that manner, it was strongly hinted that if I took the Plus account then I’ll get accepted. The “Advance” account (as it was at the time) was a free account and was never offered to me, I applied in my own right for one back in February 2010, less than 3 months after opening my main account, i.e. the fee-paying one. I was then told to wait 12 months, and by then I forgot. It does happen when you’re a busy family man that had spent most of the year in intensive care with his extremely ill 16 year old daughter, sorry but it was understandable that things may have slipped my mind, coupled with the fact I had higher priorities than arguing with a bank!

The default notice as shown with the credit agency Equifax, is shown below; this clearly shows payments up to date then a default – dated 26th May 2011, regardless of this date had they followed process and given me the proper remedial period in which to rectify, it’d never have occurred as quickly thus resulting in this entry being unlawful in totality. Also worth noting is the attached letter which confirms they have authorised an informal overdraft, dated 4th May, so given they need to provide 14 days to remedy the breach, it can be safely assumed they never issued a default notice let alone followed due process. How come though, from 3 accounts is only one showing as a month late, the other shows upto date and the third shows as defaulted – yet all are reflective as at 7th July. Transparency across system processes is evidently omitting here.



The image below shows the other two HSBC accounts; notice the status on these? So, why is it one was suddenly closed yet the other two were not when all 3 were apparently closed at the same time, on 11th April 2011.



This is my formal complaint against HSBC Bank.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

Obviously there are another 100+ pages linked to the above complaint that I have omitted as I just don't have the time to sit and edit them all so you'll have to bear with me and go on what I've said in my complaint above. This is the main addition, to the official FOS complaint form.

Cheers

[MattyA]

Re: Niddy vs HSBC

they have robbed me too - for 31 years