DNW's UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I think you need to wait and see what happens, let them go for a CCJ if they want to - at least the court will make a fair assessment of your income and outgoings plus we'll get you drawn into the CFS / Trigger Figures that is Financial Hardship - our dedicated partner in this matter will PM you details.

However stop stressing, it's a smilly small debt that they're being arses over. You have made an offer to settle, however not what I would have done - but I appreciate I was not here at the time. Personally, I'd be sending them an improved offer if you can afford it, ie around 15% (£500) this time and tell them you will explain to the court that this debt does entail a lot of charges etc that you intend to reclaim so rushing through a court order will do nobody any favours.....

Did this have any PPi etc on it?

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Thanks Niddy

Unfortunately there's no PPI, deposit or charges of any kind, it was a simple vehicle trade in and interest free loan.

I'll send them a new offer and see what happens. I'd really appreciate some help with regards to the CFS stuff so will await a PM (I'll also try and stop panicking again in the meantime, though can't promise it won't happen again as we've much bigger enforceable debts than this which I'm sure will start getting arsey soon

[BBoo]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I'd definitely go the CFS route, it is a powerful document. I'd also let Niddy's dedicated partener send the letter on your behalf as it will carry a lot more punch coming from a formal organisation than it would coming from you.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Thanks Bboo, do you mean i should sort the I&E/CFS stuff first then rather send an offer straight away? I was thinking CFS was purely in preparation for court proceedings but I'm not sure whether in your post you mean for a letter to go to Wragge & co, or to accompany court paper work (as and when that happens).

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I'd definitely go the CFS route, it is a powerful document. I'd also let Niddy's dedicated partener send the letter on your behalf as it will carry a lot more punch coming from a formal organisation than it would coming from you.

Yes, totally agree - needs to be done by the professionals, so I fully support this.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Thanks Bboo, do you mean i should sort the I&E/CFS stuff first then rather send an offer straight away? I was thinking CFS was purely in preparation for court proceedings but I'm not sure whether in your post you mean for a letter to go to Wragge & co, or to accompany court paper work (as and when that happens).

Await email from our dedicated partner with regards to Financial Hardship - all free, don't forget that!

They ask for money, you say no and let me know - simples

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

HSBC

Name                     - HSBC
Type of account          - Credit Card
Date commenced           - Sept 1994
Approx balance           - £7,453
Date last paid           - Mar-11    
Arrangement/not paying   - Not paying
Status                   - In Arrears (DN Rec'd)
Account owner            - Lender

Key:
Them
Me
Other

Activity

1. 05/04/11 DD Cancelled letter
2. 13/04/11 Confirm receipt of I&E but will not act as unsigned
3. 24/06/11 Letter warning soon to be defaulted
4. 09/07/11 Letter warning soon to be defaulted
5. 24/07/11 My letter - request interest freeze
6. 26/07/11 Default notice
7. 17/08/11 CCA Request sent
8. 03/09/11 Final demand for payment received (ignored)
   
9. 12/09/11 Letter received - we might send bailiffs or get CCJ (ignored)
10. 23/09/11 Letter received - would you like to make a F&F settlement? (ignored)
    
11. 27/09/11 Letter received - we would offer a 35% discount for F&F if you'd like to take us up on the offer? (ignored)
    
12. **** UPDATE ****
    
13. 05/11/11 Letter received from Metropolitan Collection Services - failure to make full payment within 7 days may result in legal proceedings
    

Update today - I notice that Metropolitan are members of the HSBC group, there's a surprise!

Do I just ignore this? They've never even acknowledged my CCA request, let alone sent it to me.

[BBoo]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

All their actions so far would indicate they are not in a position to take any legal proceedings in terms of court action. Bear in mind writing a letter asking you for the money is taking a legal procedure.

Obviously nobody can guarantee they won't go the court route for a CCJ, but what have they to gain? If you got the CFS done (and it is not just in preparation for court proceedings, it can be used as a very powerful tool to make an offer of repayment to your creditors), then no judge is going to make you pay more than a CFS states you can afford. If it says you can afford nothing, you'd most likley be asked to make a token payment.

The main thing sticking out to me here is that as they haven't responded to your CCA request, it has not been deemed either enforceable or unenforceable. You could really do with knowing how best to deal with this situation.

NIDDY!!!!!!!! PLEASE ADVISE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deepie]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Update today - I notice that Metropolitan are members of the HSBC group, there's a surprise!

Do I just ignore this? They've never even acknowledged my CCA request, let alone sent it to me.

Send them this > Account Sold whilst in Dispute

[garlok]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Hi DNW,

I think I2D is right here but it would seem to me that they are struggling to back up their demands with the required documents. They seem to have come in very early with "would you like to make and F & F". (NO in these circumstances LOL)

They are in default at the moment anyway for ignoring the s78 request so cannot enforce regardless of threat.

Was the DN valid and fully compliant, did any of the subsequent letters ask for monies not yet due or the full outstanding balance? If they did and the DN was in any way defective they have attempted termination on the back of a defective DN which also renders the account UE until such times as they do comply in full with the requirements.

Its interesting but at the moment I would not worry too much.

regards
Garlok

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Thanks In2 - I'll get that sent off on Monday.

Was the DN valid and fully compliant

I don't know how to check whether it was valid or compliant... I wasn't even keeping envelopes back then

did any of the subsequent letters ask for monies not yet due or the full outstanding balance?

Yes - in final demand on 03/09 they demanded immediate payment of full balance, and in todays letter they also ask for repayment of full balance.

[garlok]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Hi DNW.

Thanks for the reply. Typically a DN has to state that its under s87(1) of the CCA 1974 and there are certain things it must comply with:-

1. It MUST be accurate--- dead accurate with the sums owing.
2. It must state in full the original creditors full name and address
3. It must give you a full 14 days from date of SERVICE i.e. delivery on your doormat to rectify the default before any further action is taken. Most of these DNs give you 14days from the date of the letter.

Courts quite wrongly have been classifying much of this as a "de minimus" issue. They can no longer do that as per the Brandon case in the CoA, Paul's recent successes particularly in Harrison etc. If the DN is defective then they cannot make demands for monies not yet due or terminate or attempt termination UNTIL they issue fully compliant paperwork. They cannot enforce via the court. You never tell'em they have it wrong, just keep your powder dry and use it against them when it is most effective. LOL

Perhaps it is clearer now why it is so important to keep the envelopes attached to the relevant letter fully marked with the actual date it fell on your doormat. I have had dealings with one case on another forum some time ago in which the alleged debtor lost. The case fell on the grounds of an envelope not being available to the court which would have proved the Statement of Truth by the claimant was anything but a Statement of Truth.

Good effective paper/audit trails like this also give any legal representation you may have or need a big help if and when the time comes. Once creditors realise you have these paper trails they can be less than keen to "have a punt".

regards
Garlok

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Hi Garlok, many thanks for explaining the ins and outs of DNs, I shall use the info to look back through other default notices just to see how correct they are.

This HSBC one does look good, all seems correct as at date of issue. The only thing that would possibly have been in my favour was dates - the letter was written on 26 July and they gave me notice for 16 Aug (21 days) so it would all boil down to how long it took to arrive and the actual date received - but I didn't note this nor do I have the envelope (before joining this site in Aug, I didn't know of the importance of keeping them/noting received date, so prior to Aug, it's unlikely that I'll have any which is a real PITA But nothing I can do to change that now, so I'll just have to deal with each appropriately.

This HSBC DN doesn't worry me at the moment as they've not yet complied with my S78 request, but the compliant DN info is good to know so thanks for detailing

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Barclaycard1

Name                     - Barclaycard Plat Visa
Type of account          - Credit Card
Date commenced           - Sept 2004
Approx balance           - £3,161
Date last paid           - Mar-11    
Arrangement/not paying   - Not paying
Status                   - In Arrears  (DN rec'd 03/09)
Account owner            - DCA (Mercers)

Key:
Them
Me
Other


Activity

1. 18/04/11 Acknowledge receipt of I&E, refuse to reduce or stop charges
2. 27/04/11 Request for payment
3. 13/05/11 Reduced credit limit
4. 01/06/11 Reminder of overdue payment and informed it will be passed to Mercers to send default notice.
5. 30/06/11 Mercers - accept £1 payments, to be reviewed in 2 months. No interest or charges to be applied while making token payments.
6. 24/07/11 I wrote and requested refund interest & charges (sent to Barclays & Mercers)
7. 17/08/11 CCA request sent
8. 03/09/11 DN Received from Mercers
9. 05/09/11 Acknowledged CCA request - they're looking for it and will get back to me
10. 13/09/11 Letter rec'd from Mercers - 48 hours notice (letter dated 06/09/11), I have ignored their demands for payment so they are now passing my account to a local firm who may send a rep to visit me (ignored)
11. 29/09/11 Covering letter for Recon CCA enclosed - but no encs in envelope
12. 17/10/11 Current T&C received
13. **** UPDATE BELOW ****
    
14. 04/11/11 Letter received - Formal Demand for Payment (full balance) - until paid, no statements will be sent but will accrue interest. If not paid by 08/11/11, debt collectors may call or you may be taken to court. We will set off any funds available to us.
    

Update above - I was planning on sending Final Response - Unenforceability (No CCA Received) anyway, but should I be sending anything else along with it?

Can they really with-hold statements if (as they say) the balance will continue to accrue interest?

[BBoo]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

They have a legal obligation to send you one statement a year. Beyond this they do not have to. They are entitled to continue to charge interest, but I would imagine (can't say for sure without reading T&C's) if you ask for a statement they should send you one.

It sounds to me like you may be in a position to demonstrate financial harship anyway, so they really should be stopping charges and interest. The new OFT664 guidelines make their responsibilities quite clear, and if they refuse to comply with them, simply report them to the FOS.