DNW's UE Diary

[MrsD]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

we did a DMp with CCCS originally but you are savvy enough to run your own, as garlok says, list them up, do a rough i&e and send out letters telling them that this is what they'll be getting. gives you more leeway with the i&e if you get my drift.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I did speak to CCCS a few months back when I first woke up and smelled the coffee and realised the debts had to be tackled, but I found them to be very limiting in terms of I&E. I've heard of independent reviewers that can assist with I&E forms and getting them completed somewhat more favourably, but I don't know how I even go about finding someone who offers this service.

I think in reading Garloks post, I'm in danger of falling into exactly the trap that they want ie increase the F&F offer to the max and have done with it, whereas it could well be in our interests to go through the court process - so long as our I&E is completed correctly in the first place.

I don't have the foggiest knowledge or understanding of the court/CCJ process and admit the thought of having to stand and talk and defend ourselves/finances in a room full of experienced over-powering strangers makes me break into a cold sweat - and that's the main reason I wanted to avoid court, it's nothing to do with having CCJs on our credit files as that doesn't matter to me in the slightest, it's just the big room/lots of people and having to speak that terrifies me.

[MrsD]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

well if you admit the debt and send back the necessary forms, I believe the big personal appearance isn't necessary, I think someone just stamps it and off it goes. But you would have to be sure its right and your I&E is right as well. Do you have a house because that is much more important, because then the old charing order may well rear its head. Not trying to scare you but you need to know all the possibilities.

a self managed DMP might well be the best way forward for you, you're still in control and we'll help and support you through, and this also leaves open the possibility of F&F down the road, you need breathing space to get some money together

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I would much prefer a self managed DMP with a realistic I&E, but thought that CCCS and others had a little more clout in terms of creditors are more agreeable if the charity plans were used.

We do own our own house (all be it currently in negative equity), the house is in joint names and all debts are in either mine or OHs name - we've no joint debts so I though charging orders we're less of a worry?

[helmsman]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I did speak to CCCS a few months back when I first woke up and smelled the coffee and realised the debts had to be tackled, but I found them to be very limiting in terms of I&E. I've heard of independent reviewers that can assist with I&E forms and getting them completed somewhat more favourably, but I don't know how I even go about finding someone who offers this service.

I think in reading Garloks post, I'm in danger of falling into exactly the trap that they want ie increase the F&F offer to the max and have done with it, whereas it could well be in our interests to go through the court process - so long as our I&E is completed correctly in the first place.

I don't have the foggiest knowledge or understanding of the court/CCJ process and admit the thought of having to stand and talk and defend ourselves/finances in a room full of experienced over-powering strangers makes me break into a cold sweat - and that's the main reason I wanted to avoid court, it's nothing to do with having CCJs on our credit files as that doesn't matter to me in the slightest, it's just the big room/lots of people and having to speak that terrifies me.

Hi,
If and when you receive court papers you will receive an i/e to fill in if you admit the debt. Personally I would forget about the 2nd incomes and use only the guaranteed income. Work everything out and offer what you can afford, if it is only £10 then offer £10 the court may say you pay £100 if you cant afford it go for a redetermination. On a recent court case against me that is all I sent off I/E offer of £10pm it was accepted by the court I produced no bank statements ect.
ps it will take me 18 years to clear that debt.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I think we would have to declare the 2nd incomes as without them, we can't quite meet priority payments each month if we actually budget properly and put money by for annual bills such as car tax & insurance. We can manage on a month to month basis with our regular incomes, but the 2nd jobs pay for all the other extras such as emergency fund, insurances, birthdays, kids clothes, F&F fund etc.

I think I need to go and hunt out the allowable expenses PDF that I found when I first joined up here, there were quite a few things on there that CCCS didn't mention were allowable and frowned upon other expenses such as school dinners.

[helmsman]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I think we would have to declare the 2nd incomes as without them, we can't quite meet priority payments each month if we actually budget properly and put money by for annual bills such as car tax & insurance. We can manage on a month to month basis with our regular incomes, but the 2nd jobs pay for all the other extras such as emergency fund, insurances, birthdays, kids clothes, F&F fund etc.

I think I need to go and hunt out the allowable expenses PDF that I found when I first joined up here, there were quite a few things on there that CCCS didn't mention were allowable and frowned upon other expenses such as school dinners.

Hi,
Ok thats fine if you need 2nd income to survive put them down but also put down all your outgoings you will not be frowned upon, it is not scary at all if you have to go to court for a redetermination their is only the judge and the creditors solicitor in a private room you just state your case ect, if the judge knows you are doing everything just to survive I would be very surprised if he wasnt sympathetic to you.
good luck

[garlok]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I am told that under judges rules, the judge and the court should provide every assistance to the litigant in person and make allowances for the fact they are not trained experts ( at lying and cheating and twisting words and the law for their own ends).

Garlok

[MrsD]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

hey guys, let's not get ahead of ourselves, no papers received so everything still to play for.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I did speak to CCCS a few months back when I first woke up and smelled the coffee and realised the debts had to be tackled, but I found them to be very limiting in terms of I&E. I've heard of independent reviewers that can assist with I&E forms and getting them completed somewhat more favourably, but I don't know how I even go about finding someone who offers this service.

I think in reading Garloks post, I'm in danger of falling into exactly the trap that they want ie increase the F&F offer to the max and have done with it, whereas it could well be in our interests to go through the court process - so long as our I&E is completed correctly in the first place.

I don't have the foggiest knowledge or understanding of the court/CCJ process and admit the thought of having to stand and talk and defend ourselves/finances in a room full of experienced over-powering strangers makes me break into a cold sweat - and that's the main reason I wanted to avoid court, it's nothing to do with having CCJs on our credit files as that doesn't matter to me in the slightest, it's just the big room/lots of people and having to speak that terrifies me.

Hi DNW

I'm on a self managed DMP and have been for over a year. Couple of creditors were real PITA's but this would have happened CCCS or not.

The benefit of not going with the CCCS is that if you want you can play the UE card, and also omit creditors from your plan if they refuse to freeze interest and charges. CCCS won't allow you to do this.

I wrote some DMP guides on the LB forum where you can get started (haven't got round to posting those guides here yet - sorry Niddy!)

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=28567

I used the following headings and items below for my I/E calculations.

What I can tell you is that a court claim form asks for a lot less information than this so you have to 'bundle' some of this up.

In my view you should not include infrequent/temp/non guaranteed income on your I/E form as it does not give you a stable view of your finances. Instead what you should do is pool any money from these sources and then (if you wish) split it in a pro rata one off payment to your creditors.

Personally I keep mine for emergencies so that I never will have to rely on credit to get me out of sticky times.

In terms of a court claim fill in the N9A (if not defending) and, from what the court people have told me, the figures are entered into a computer and the figure you can afford is calculated. The judge literally just 'seals the deal'.

You shouldn't have to go to court as its all done via the post. If you defend, or the creditor refuses your payment offer, then you may have to appear in court. There is also, as said, the risk of charging orders etc but a Creditor would have to have a really good reason to obtain one.

We certainly did not have to do anything to 'prove' income in the way of payslips or anything like that, however I know some creditors demand disclosure.

If you're making your creditors offers of payment then its unlikely they will choose the court route anyway as you are demonstrating yourself to be a 'can't pay' who is trying to resolve the situation as opposed to a 'won't pay'

I know Garlok though will also advise to pay nothing and offer nothing which is a tactic which is working for him

Housing
Mortgage
Water
Council Tax
Electric

Household Services
Buildings & Content Insurance
Telephone/Mobile/Internet
Repairs/Maintenance
Hire Purchase

Transport
Servicing/Maintenance
Road Tax
Insurance
Fuel

Food & Housekeeping
Food/Toiletries/Cleaning
Pets/Insurance

Misc, Goods & Services
School Trips/Activities
Medicine/Prescriptions
Dentist/Opticians
Hairdressing

Personal & Leisure
Clothing/Footwear
Sports/Hobbies/Entertainment
Childrens Pocket Money

Sundries & Emergencies
Emergencies

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Personally I keep mine for emergencies so that I never will have to rely on credit to get me out of sticky times.

This (above) is really important to me. I never ever want to rely on credit in the future either.


It would be good to find out about allowable limits on items, but I'm also concerned there would be quibbles with a few things. For example my broadband payment is higher than a lot of others available (£40 per month) - but a lot of my work is conducted remotely and I need the stability and limits that my current package provides. But when I was looking into DMP with CCCS, they said that the cost was too high and it could be reduced - but would a court accept it seeing as it's needed for my job? Things like this are probably trivial matters to a lot of peope, but I suppose for me it's fear of the unknown.

I have found some info on allowable limits, but I can't find what I saw previously which went into everything in great detail and broke everything down completely.

Proof of income for our secondary jobs would also be difficult as we are both recently self employed and haven't yet completed a tax return and dont have an accountant to help us with allowable expenditrte for tax purpopses, so at the moment I just take a flat 30% straight off our income and bung it in an account ready for the tax man and hope it'll cover the bill.

Urgggh. My head is spinning tonight

[Susie]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Cannot help with the allowable expenditure, but unless you are a higher rate tax payer the 30% will be fine for the tax bill. For allowable expenditure you need to be able to say thet the expense was wholly for the work, so for an example if you needed to work further away for a day the travel would be allowable but food would not as the travel was essential for you to do the work but you would have had to eat regardless of where you worked. Tax man is usually reasonable as long as you are sensible with things and the more receipts you have the better. Should give you an idea of your taxable profit if you find that you cannot afford an accountant, and doing your own return is not too hard once you get going!

[garlok]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Just a little reply to your comments SnV in your last post. It is not a case of advising don't pay at all if you have read my previous posts here. It also not a "tactic" as you suggest. We have four BC accounts all of which, despite a major argument going on between us, had been kept fully up to date with a major struggle until a couple of years ago. The dispute and complaints had already been going on for two years at that point.

BC then overstepped the mark into criminal territory, my health collapsed and I was told GET HELP or DIE probably tomorrow. BC were offered the chance to come to the table and negotiate, they refused flatly, we sought professional legal advice in the light of the medical problems , who investigated very thoroughly. At the conclusion of that investigation all accounts were declared unenforceable, BC were informed in writing by a practising officer of the court that to achieve any form of closure on these matters they had to go to court. An offer they also declined. we also have it in writing from the managing partner of the practice concerned that now we will be defended if anyone ever dares to go to court at no further cost to ourselves.

One. My advice to anyone in these circumstances is to seek legal advice from a specialist early on when it gets nasty to ascertain your true position in law.

Two. most really good law firms do not advertise they have no need to. You have to go looking and the really reputable ones will always give you some time to get the fees togther.

Three. The fees were very reasonable and we were given the time to get the fees togther. However we did not eat properly for a couple of months to ensure we could pay them. In fact the total fees were less than one month's total payments on those cards. The disbursements brought it all to about two months payments.

Four. Everything that has been done since has been done under the direction and instructions of our legal representatives. That includes 16 DCAs and 3 solicitors practices all threatening Armageddon on myself and my OH.

Five. We have achieved a F & F at 10% on an overdraft and loan which were nothing to do with the above accounts with them running things as I felt after all the study I had done on the subject it is and always was fraught with pitfalls for the unwary. That has been demonstrated by Barclays even trying it on with our sols and receiving a very nasty rap on the knuckles for the privilege when it was in law watertight. Cost in all -- Four solicitors letters. Saving 9.5K. The reason for the F & F. Incorrect and unlawful use of the rights of SetOff against a business account nothing to do with the cards. Therefore Barclays are completely untrustworthy as a bank.

The above has now been proven as one account has now been sold to a specialist in UE accounts and lemons. Who at the moment are on the receiving end of something nasty from our legal team.

So no I am not a "won't" pay we couldn't continue paying and had the wild dogs let loose upon us the moment we broached the fact that I now had chronic heart disease. For example our log of threatening telephone calls extends to over 800 calls, most of which occurred whilst the cards were all FULLY paid up.

If anyone wants to ask further questions as to my motives and methods please feel free to do so.

regards
Garlok

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

I've been going round and round in circles with this last night and today, I've been looking into BR now as well as DMPs but although we're possibly eligable for BR, I'd rather avoid that if I can so very much concentrating on the DMP route - (paying Honda alone for now (whilst using all creditors in my calculations) and adding others in one at a time at a later date when the other numerous enforceables start to strop too.

I would be self-managing but would like a little backup in terms of having my I&E calculated and signed off by someone with a little more clout than I have myself. How do I find someone who could work through a Common Financial Statement with me - is it just a case of looking up a local IFA?

Considering Wragge are (according to their letter of 11/10) due to begin legal proceedings on Monday (no extension to this was mentioned in their most recent letter rejecting F&F offer), I may be a bit late to do much with that now as I've not got an upto date I&E completed to give them figures from so I guess I just have to wait for the court papers to arrive.

Once proceedings have begun, can they be withdrawn by creditors at any point if they wish?

[MrsD]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

they might not send any papers at all. Any "mays" in their original letter? If you really think its the time to set something up with these guys, no harm in sending a letter offering a monthly payment now?