Bricktop's UE Diary

[SXGuy]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

18th August: Hillesden Securities... still waiting for copy of CCA from MBNA - will update in 21 days.

Now been over 2 months looking for it, long may it continue

Dont worry, got the same letter (i think even the same day) and they havent found my mbna agreement since last december lol

For some reason Hillesden (DLC) just dont let go of accounts that will never be rectified. I dont know, perhaps they hope you will admit the debt at some point. But you would think if they aint managed to get it by now they may as well close the account.

Nat West

Recoveries dept wrote that they are disappointed that I haven't paid them a quid for a month or two against the cc debt.

Still no sign of my cca from them yet, so they can keep being disappointed

haha got that same letter also, sent back CCA final response, and low and behold they admitted that cant enforce and lost the agreement.

They did send Terms and Conditions though, so double check because they may have misplaced the actual agreement.

[Bricktop]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

yep got the T&C's today, no agreement though

[vint1954]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

The T&C's, reconstructed or not, must clearly relate to your agreement.

S78 response must include.

Copy of the agreement ( may be reconstructed ) and any document referred to in it.

Copy of terms at inception.

Copy of latest terms.

Statement of account.

[greymatter]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Hi FP
I thought that if the credit agreement was modified /varied then Waksman in the Carey case says 'Accordingly, I conclude that Reg. 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form as well as a statement of the terms as they are at the time of the request.'

Also CCA1974 S3 Duty to give information:
17 (1)Sections 77 to 80 come into operation on [F54819th May 1985].

(2)Sections 77 to 79 apply to an agreement made before [F54819th May 1985]where the agreement would have been a regulated agreement if made on that day.

So if there has been a unilateral variation or modification even prior to May 1985 the above would apply would it not.
FP this is just my observation.
GM

[vint1954]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

If they are current T&Cs or just random terms then they are not relevant, they have to be the terms from inception, the ones you'd have agreed to when you took out the card. There has to be a connection between the terms and the actual agreement. Anyone can send a booklet with T&Cs, that doesn't mean you agreed to them. MBNA also tried to fob me off with current T&Cs in response to my CCA request as there had no trace of the agreement!

The only exception is for accounts started before May 85 where all they have to send is current T&Cs.

Sometimes you just get a cornflakes packet.

MBNA are hopeless at s78 requests, but don't tell them.

[vint1954]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Hi FP
I thought that if the credit agreement was modified /varied then Waksman in the Carey case says 'Accordingly, I conclude that Reg. 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form as well as a statement of the terms as they are at the time of the request.'

Also CCA1974 S3 Duty to give information:
17 (1)Sections 77 to 80 come into operation on [F54819th May 1985].

(2)Sections 77 to 79 apply to an agreement made before [F54819th May 1985]where the agreement would have been a regulated agreement if made on that day.

So if there has been a unilateral variation or modification even prior to May 1985 the above would apply would it not.
FP this is just my observation.
GM

No, pre 85 they just have to provide terms as FP states.

[vint1954]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Has the provider changed since 85.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Originaly most cards issued pre 1985 were issued by Banks to account holders (Access & Barclaycard) with no CCA hence the use for the 1st time was acceptance of T&Cs without signed agreement , hence the post agreements came into being, as I remember.

[vint1954]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Originaly most cards issued pre 1985 were issued by Banks to account holders (Access & Barclaycard) with no CCA hence the use for the 1st time was acceptance of T&Cs without signed agreement , hence the post agreements came into being, as I remember.

Indeed, I had an access card in 1972. The bank just sent it to me.

All changed for cards after 85. There had to be an agreement.

If your agreement was before may 85, then it would not fall under the 1985 changes to the CCA.

For court, it would just come down to a matter of evidence. The CC company could prove that you had used the card and would doubtless argue that there was no need to provide original terms pre 85, just those current ones.

How they would ever prove that they had the right to vary the interest rate or other conditions, I don't know. Perhaps they dont.

[vint1954]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Looking at it again, it was only s78 that came into being in May 85, so they are indeed correct in supplying current terms for s78 requests.

Court would be a different matter as the rest of CCA 74 applies.

For arguments sake, if you stated that you were just sent the card, no terms and stated to use it, the onus would then be on them to prove the terms at the time.

[greymatter]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Hi FP
Especially if they modify the tc's.How are you going to compare what was originally set up with what is in force now?
I better get out of Bricktops Diary.
GM

[Bricktop]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Ok, now even more confused (not hard lol)

I opened my bank account in approx 1981, however the only credit card I had in those days was an access card in 1982.

Didn't have a visa card with the bank, but I did have a mastercard with them (account closed many moons ago).

This particular visa card was part of an 'advantage gold' account upgrade which was done in the early '90's if memory serves me right, and at that point they issued me with this visa card.

So, plan of action........ ?

[Bricktop]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

Jeebus, the grey matter is on overdrive now.....

I 'think' what happened was this, I may have got a flyer for a loan, went to the bank and was told if I upgraded the current account to the advantage gold account the rate for the loan would be cheaper than the advertised rates so it would be in my interest long term to upgrade the account.

So I probably signed several bits of paper and part of the upgrade was the Visa gold card. (possibly ?)

Exact circumstances may be a bit off, but sure that visa card was there or thereabouts when all my accounts turned 'gold' ( especially for those robbing )

And it may have been mid '90's rather than early '90's, can't remember exactly and none of the paperwork they sent me in response to my CCA request has a date on it !

I am liking the idea of the template letter 'run along, photocopy my CCA and pop it in the post to me' .... worth a bash ?

[greymatter]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

I thought Mastercard came in early 90's?
Also ,was the requirement when they sent this upgrade from Access,just sign the card and use it.
GM

[Bricktop]

Re: Bricktop's UE Diary

I had a nat west mastercard well before they gave me this visa card.

The original access card I had was not nat west, I think that may have been Lloyds (which was jibbed and card account closed in the late 80's)