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**vint1954** · 31 July 2012, 22:49

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by SXGuy View Post

Hi guys.

A clients husband recently died, he had a flat, and according to his bank, a secured overdraft against that flat.

Our client is trying to sort out the probate and her solicitor has asked to get confirmation that the mortgage on the flat has been paid up (which it has)

But the bank has said they are unable to provide that confirmation until the overdraft is paid up.

She showed me what looks like a recon agreement for the overdraft, but it mentions nothing about it being secured to anything.

Its a shame that the mortgage and overdraft are with the same bank, because personally i think they are just trying to blag the overdraft being paid back from her husbands estate.

Thoughts on what she can do?

You can check the Land Registry, costs about £4 and can be done online. If it's not there then chances are that it is not secured.

The Executor of his will, needs confirmation that the Overdraft is Securred before he can deal with it.

If they are trying to misslead, it may be worth reminding them that it is a criminal offence to do so under CPUTR 2008.

**vint1954** · 31 July 2012, 22:51

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by vint1954 View Post

You can check the Land Registry, costs about £4 and can be done online. If it's not there then chances are that it is not secured.

The Executor of his will, needs confirmation that the Overdraft is Securred before he can deal with it.

If they are trying to misslead, it may be worth reminding them that it is a criminal offence to do so under CPUTR 2008.

Having said that, the deceased's debts should be paid from the estate.

Also, was the Flat in joint names?

**SXGuy** · 31 July 2012, 23:08

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

i believe the flat was in joint names yeah.

even if what she showed me isnt a true copy of the agreement, theres no mention of it being secured, and id think that would be a pretty big part of any recon.

I wondered why her solicitor hasnt told her to check the land registry, but then her husband hasnt passed away long and i can imagine she isnt quite thinking straight at the moment to ask the solicitor the right questions.

**vint1954** · 31 July 2012, 23:16

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by SXGuy View Post

i believe the flat was in joint names yeah.

even if what she showed me isnt a true copy of the agreement, theres no mention of it being secured, and id think that would be a pretty big part of any recon.

I wondered why her solicitor hasnt told her to check the land registry, but then her husband hasnt passed away long and i can imagine she isnt quite thinking straight at the moment to ask the solicitor the right questions.

Anyone can check the register. It does not have to be the owner.

This is what you will see online.

2. (29 August 1974) The land in this title is subject to the following rights reserved by a Conveyance dated 27 July 1968 made between (1) Maradon Borough Council (Vendor) and (2) John Robertson (Purchaser):-
“subject to
(i) An exception and reservation in favour of the Vendor of the right to enter upon the land hereby conveyed for the purpose of constructing a public sewer the approximate line of which is shown coloured red on the plan annexed hereto and at all times hereafter for the purpose of inspecting cleaning repairing or renewing the said sewer.”
NOTE:- The red line referred to is shown by a blue broken line on the title plan.
3. (29 August 1974) A Transfer of the land in this title dated 21 August 1974 made between (1) Henry Smith and (2) David Stanley Charles and Susan Charles contains restrictive covenants.
NOTE: Copy in Certificate.
4. REGISTERED CHARGE dated 3 December 2001 to secure the moneys including the further advances therein mentioned.
PROPRIETOR Ilkingham Building Society of 101 Cambridge Street, Ilkingham IL1 3FC.
The charges

The above is just an example.

URL is here: Online services - Land Registry - UK Government Department

You have to sign up, which is free as a private individual.

**kilasuit** · 31 July 2012, 23:16

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

I can only think that for it to be secured it would have to be a business overdraft

a personal one i believe would be a big no no

A secured loan would have been more appropriate tbh

**vint1954** · 31 July 2012, 23:23

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by SXGuy View Post

i believe the flat was in joint names yeah.

even if what she showed me isnt a true copy of the agreement, theres no mention of it being secured, and id think that would be a pretty big part of any recon.

I wondered why her solicitor hasnt told her to check the land registry, but then her husband hasnt passed away long and i can imagine she isnt quite thinking straight at the moment to ask the solicitor the right questions.

If the flat is in joint names in the normal way, then title passes to her. I don't think that they can make her sell to pay off the husbands overdraft. They could ask that they are paid from any money that he had solely in his own name.

If there were joint accounts, she should get onto the bank and have these acconts transferred into her sole name, assuming that it is not the same bank that the OD is with.

As far as not confirming that the Mortgage is paid until the OD is sorted, surely they had the deeds returned to them when the Mortgage was redeemed? Their response could also be deemed unfair under CPUTR.

I can't understand why the solicitor does not check the Land Registry. That would solve all of the problems.

**vint1954** · 31 July 2012, 23:27

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by kilasuit View Post

I can only think that for it to be secured it would have to be a business overdraft

a personal one i believe would be a big no no

A secured loan would have been more appropriate tbh

Indeed, or he was of retiment age or it was a large OD.

Either way, if his estate has no funds to pay, the debt dies with him unless securred.

**SXGuy** · 1 August 2012, 06:26

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Thanks for the help guys.

I know theres loads of unananswered questions, its really hard getting any solid info from her at the moment.

As far as i know the overdraft was a business one, hense the security.

Ill advise her to check the land registry.

Not sure why the solicitor hasnt told her this already.

**PlanB** · 1 August 2012, 08:29

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by SXGuy View Post

Hi guys.

She showed me what looks like a recon agreement for the overdraft, but it mentions nothing about it being secured to anything.

Its a shame that the mortgage and overdraft are with the same bank, because personally i think they are just trying to blag the overdraft being paid back from her husbands estate.

Thoughts on what she can do?

If you check with Land Registry you may well see a charge on the property from the bank because she has/had a mortgage with them too. But that doesn't mean that the overdraft (a seperate product) was secured by it too. Some (but not all) charges will say "all monies owed jointly and severally

" to embrace other products with the bank.

**vint1954** · 1 August 2012, 08:37

Re: Secured Overdraft - Quick question

If the Overdraft was a business one, then she would have had to sign the security form to allow this.

**PlanB** · 1 August 2012, 08:42

Re: Secured Overdraft - Quick question

I have an overdraft with Barclays on my business account which is unsecured but it's only a small one. Maybe they only require security over a certain limit. How much is this one SXGuy?

**vint1954** · 1 August 2012, 08:53

Re: Secured Overdraft - Qick question

Originally posted by Flowerpower

I was going to ask if it was a business O/D as those are normally secured on the owners' personal property.

Would a business O/D be covered by CPUTR which is meant for Consumer Protection?

It could be, it depends on the set up of the business. If he was a sole trader, then it is more likely. If a limited company then the directors are sometimes asked to guarantee.

If he was a sole trader, then I think CPUTR would apply. It may scare them as a last resort. My comments really revolved around refusing to confirm that the Mortgage had been paid and suggesting without proof that the Overdraft had been securred.

If the OP's client cannot recall signing the guarantee, or cannot find reference to it in the overdraft documents, then the likelyhood is that it was unsecurred.

If there is a solicitor involved, he should know what to do, so long as he does not settle the overdraft just for an easy life.

**SXGuy** · 1 August 2012, 15:01

Re: Secured Overdraft - Quick question

Thanks guys.

Im not sure how much the O/D was for to be honest.

By the sounds of it, they ment to secure it but prob never did, they know this, and is why they are saying they wont give confirmation of the mortgage being paid up till the O/D is paid back.

Documents relating to the O/D clearly shows no security.

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