No tenancy agreement

[pezman65]

Hi, About 3 months ago my Son set up a hairdressing shop with a flat above , His fiance ran the shop and he lived in the flat. He has since found out she has been seeing an old boyfriend and they had a row. He walked out in anger and when he returned she had changed the locks and put most of his personal possessions outside. She has never lived in the flat although the tenancy agreement for the shop and the flat are in her name, he has paid the rent direct to the landlord. He does not have any tenancy agreement. She keeps moving stuff out into the back yard and then telling him it is there, he has to go straight round to collect it or it may get stolen. She still has his bed and heavy personal stuff such at tele, Sofa and furniture, he has no more money and can not get accommodation and at this time is sleeping on my sofa. Has anyone got any experience in this area, Many thanks Pez

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: No tenancy agreement

What a little bitch!! If he's paying for it, stop!

Who is the hairdresser, him or the ex girlfriend? Obv if its him then technically it ain't his is it...!

Good luck whatever you do.

[pezman65]

Re: No tenancy agreement

What a little bitch!! If he's paying for it, stop!

Who is the hairdresser, him or the ex girlfriend? Obv if its him then technically it ain't his is it...!

Good luck whatever you do.

Hi Niddy, he has stopped paying as she has evicted him without notice, he had paid the rent up to today but she changed the locks last Thursday, she is the hairdresser and put up no money at all, he has paid for everything, he has loads of receipts in his name for stock - equipment etc.

[SXGuy]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Im no expert, but from what little understanding i have (and it may be wrong) as he had no tenancy agreement, he has no rights as to entry of the flat, nor whether he can live there.

Infact if he had refused to leave he probably would have had more rights as a squatter.

Similiarly, its most likely, that his ex would be seen to have been "sub letting" to him, which i would bet my life, goes against her agreement to the landlord, for the flat above the unit she was opperating out of.

So while he techically has no rights, he could in theory, make a little annonymous phone call to the landlord informing them of her sub letting.

[Pixie]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Seems like she definitely used your son. He needs to get her to pay for the stock/equipment he bought for her but I'm not sure how...maybe small claims court?

Let's hope he's never tempted to get back together with her

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: No tenancy agreement

If I was him I'd go speak to some local heavies with a can and walk into the salon and remove EVERYTHING that I held a receipt for. That's perfectly legal.

As she kicked him out he would literally turn up and remove all HIS stock/fixtures.

[pezman65]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Im no expert, but from what little understanding i have (and it may be wrong) as he had no tenancy agreement, he has no rights as to entry of the flat, nor whether he can live there.

Infact if he had refused to leave he probably would have had more rights as a squatter.

Similiarly, its most likely, that his ex would be seen to have been "sub letting" to him, which i would bet my life, goes against her agreement to the landlord, for the flat above the unit she was opperating out of.

So while he techically has no rights, he could in theory, make a little annonymous phone call to the landlord informing them of her sub letting.

Hi SXguy, although he did not have a written agreement he had a verbal agreement with the landlord, he paid him the initial £1050 cash deposit and the original £780 rent, the landlord was fully aware that he was to have the flat and she was to have the salon, they had discussions around changing the carpet etc. he also paid the next months rent and has a receipt. I have checked online and I understand a verbal agreement still gives you the rights not to be evicted without notice and certainly it would seem she has broken the "trespass against property act 1977" by putting his stuff outside without permission. She did not live there and as such had no rights to move his personal belongings. I think a visit to CAB may be appropriate. I will update once we have been for anyone else in this situation, many thanks Pez

[pezman65]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Seems like she definitely used your son. He needs to get her to pay for the stock/equipment he bought for her but I'm not sure how...maybe small claims court?

Let's hope he's never tempted to get back together with her

Hi Pixie, he certainly has learned his lesson. We will look at advice re the Small claims court when we visit the CAB to see if they can help, many thanks Pez

[evilcartman]

Re: No tenancy agreement

When the relevant Housing Act, which introduced "assured shorthold" tenancies, came into law, I was told by housing officers that if a landlord did not serve the correct paperwork for an assured shorthold tenancy, then they would inadvertently be creating an "assured tenancy", which actually gives you more rights as a tenant!

This was brought in precisely to stop dodgy landlords trying to shirk the housing laws by not having a proper agreement.

Now this was in the early 90s, so the loophole might well have been closed by now, but it's definitely worth getting proper legal advice on this from a lawyer who specialises in landlord and tenant law.

[pezman65]

Re: No tenancy agreement

When the relevant Housing Act, which introduced "assured shorthold" tenancies, came into law, I was told by housing officers that if a landlord did not serve the correct paperwork for an assured shorthold tenancy, then they would inadvertently be creating an "assured tenancy", which actually gives you more rights as a tenant!

This was brought in precisely to stop dodgy landlords trying to shirk the housing laws by not having a proper agreement.

Now this was in the early 90s, so the loophole might well have been closed by now, but it's definitely worth getting proper legal advice on this from a lawyer who specialises in landlord and tenant law.

Many thanks, I will certainly look into that, cheers Pez

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: No tenancy agreement

This is planB territory, lets see what she says too

[jon1965]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Was just about to suggest Plan B
I would indeed go round and reclaim everything that he has a receipt for, either that or issue a claim for the full value.

What an evil cow she is

[PlanB]

Re: No tenancy agreement

His fiance ran the shop and he lived in the flat. He has since found out she has been seeing an old boyfriend and they had a row. He walked out in anger and when he returned she had changed the locks and put most of his personal possessions outside. . .

. . . . Has anyone got any experience in this area, Many thanks Pez

I have plenty of experience in this area. I've thrown out loads of men in my lifetime and changed the locks behind them too

On a more serious note I'll be back in the morning with some helpful suggestions and practical steps for your son

While I appreciate the need for revenge perhaps going round to the salon with a bunch of heavies and a baseball bat to recover his stuff may not be the best idea She would call the police and your son could find himself charged with criminal damage if the event got ugly (and trust me it would) Since the tenancy agreement is in his ex-fiance's name he could even be done for tresspass. Unfair but true.

Grassing-up his fiance to the Landlord for sub-letting the flat wouldn't work because your son has been paying rent direct to the Landlord so it won't come as a big surprise to him. Most Landlords don't give a damn where the money comes from as long as it arrives in the bank. A Landlord wouldn't, and more importantly probably couldn't, lawfully evict her for having her bloke pay *her* rent. He would have to prove that there was a commercial arrangement between them such as a written tenancy agreement. And there wasn't. What would be achieved by doing that anyway? Getting her evicted and left without the means to earn a living with the salon gone wouldn't help your son and could be seen as vindictive.

I appreciate neither of those two suggestions came from you.

You say "the tenancy agreement for the shop and the flat are in her name". Are as in plural. Do you mean there's a seperate tenancy agreement for each? This is most important.

The big question is what does you son actually want? Does he want money back on his investment (salon not girlfriend) or does he want to repair the relationship? He was the one who walked out not her If she wants to get 'legal' she could say he's abandoned the property. Best not to get 'legal' if it can be avoided. They were engaged and in love so there's bound to be a lot of hurt and anger flying around on both sides. How long ago did this 'row' happen? Is their relationship irreparable or doomed forever because of pride on both sides? Once you've done a legal/financial split it's awfully hard to change your mind.

Did they sign any mutual business deal/contract or set up a limited company together or anything formal for the hairdressing salon?

Okay, that's a lot of questions but my response will depend on your answers

[PlanB]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Was just about to suggest Plan B
I would indeed go round and reclaim everything that he has a receipt for, either that or issue a claim for the full value.

What an evil cow she is

^^^^ I hope you don't mean me or there'll be trouble young man

[jon1965]

Re: No tenancy agreement

Would i call you names behind your back?

I wouldn't dare!