Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

[joshing]

Cannot believe our luck, got a letter today and lovely photo. What do everyone think do we have to pay? Had blue badge up as double yellow lines, half on path as hgvs come along all the time, was there ten mins to grab a packet of screws. The thing i cannot make out is the car behind us and then not. It wasnt there when we pulled up.Talk about ripping people off £150!!!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

You need a Cloggy.....

Do not pay yet - I've asked him to pop in

** I'd like to see how a judge deemed their *damages* cos £150 without evidence of any damage or losses to that effect seem extortionate to say the least, however you won't be paying this most likely

[colonelsensibl]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Proserve seem to be a dodgy organisation, with a dodgy owner. See

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...roken-law.html

I hope I haven't broken any forum rules in posting this. If I have please let me know and I'll edit, or just delete. There seems to be lots of advice on many forums about how to fight these charge notices, and win. What you musn't do is ignore it (this is out-dated advice apparently).

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

I hope I haven't broken any forum rules in posting this.

Not at all - post what you like here

[PriorityOne]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

My daughter had a private parking ticket just after the new legislation came in last year(?)..... but we ignored it anyway.

It did the rounds with Newlyn debt collectors; with the balance increasing each time. They gave up after about 6 letters..... but I compiled a load of arguments to defend with at the time, just in case. I seem to remember one of these was to do with contractual law; since she had not entered a contract with them, they had no right to fine her.

**Edit** Bloody Hell!! That's one feck of a fine though!! Cheeky bar stewards......

[colonelsensibl]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Thanks. A little more information I found:

"

...This company is not in any ATA so legally cannot get RK details as a parking company...

When they apply for RK details, they do so on the basis of trespass. You don't have to be in an ATA for that, anyone with 'reasonable cause' can apply to the DVLA on the paper form and pay £2.50 to get the keeper details.


However, in Proserve's case, it gets murky, because some of their signage and paperwork states 'contract or trespass' so they are mixing their metaphors and have been suspended from access on at least three occasions by the DVLA.


Also, if they get the keeper details on the basis of trespass, they cannot use any of the provisions of POFA 2012. So they can only go after the driver in the case of private cars, but most of their tickets are issued to commercial vehicles (at £300 a pop), and they pursue the firm on the basis that the driver was their employee, and therefore they are responsible for his actions.


But it looks like Mr Duff, by name and nature, has royally screwed everything up, and the landowners who contracted with him may be regretting they ever got involved with such a chancer."

From the above, I'd suggest that whatever you do, you must not divulge the name of the driver.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Thanks. A little more information I found:

"

...This company is not in any ATA so legally cannot get RK details as a parking company...

When they apply for RK details, they do so on the basis of trespass. You don't have to be in an ATA for that, anyone with 'reasonable cause' can apply to the DVLA on the paper form and pay £2.50 to get the keeper details.


However, in Proserve's case, it gets murky, because some of their signage and paperwork states 'contract or trespass' so they are mixing their metaphors and have been suspended from access on at least three occasions by the DVLA.


Also, if they get the keeper details on the basis of trespass, they cannot use any of the provisions of POFA 2012. So they can only go after the driver in the case of private cars, but most of their tickets are issued to commercial vehicles (at £300 a pop), and they pursue the firm on the basis that the driver was their employee, and therefore they are responsible for his actions.


But it looks like Mr Duff, by name and nature, has royally screwed everything up, and the landowners who contracted with him may be regretting they ever got involved with such a chancer."

From the above, I'd suggest that whatever you do, you must not divulge the name of the driver.

Yes.... that's what they're after; the name of the driver. Unless they have this, then they don't know who to prosecute. In my daughter's case, I was also a named driver on her insurance..... so if they'd been aware of that, it could have been either of us driving the vehicle at the time.

[colonelsensibl]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

And another:

"The following letter has been sent to the DVLA following its written assurance that any company seeking to exercise rights under PoFA, when it is legally unable to do so, will be suspended from access to the DVLA data base. If anyone out there has received a Charge Notice from Proserve more than 14 days after the alleged parking infringement please feel free to use this as a base for a complaint to the DVLA. Address your complaint to Robert Toft whose email address is

robert.toft@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

The reference to Mr Toft's letter of the 21st August 2014 is under their reference "MSU 111644/ACTS 89109" and it may assist the DVLA if you include that reference after you mention the date of that letter. You may wish to add a further personal paragraph along these lines

"In view of the fact that Proserve has indicated that it will be using data for a purpose you have not sanctioned I would be grateful if you could send a written notification to Proserve (copy to me) that it is not entitled to use data to pursue a registered keeper in default of that Keeper failing to provide the name and address of a driver."

I guess that there must be thousands of you out there so get your letters in......it may just save you anywhere between £150 and £300 or more.


Good Morning,

I am attaching the standard form of Charge Notice issued by Proserve Enforcement Solutions. You will observe that it was issued on the 25th June 2014 for an alleged parking infringement on the 2nd June 2014. Proserve does not issue any Notice to Driver under PoFA. Thus PoFA does not apply yet Proserve indicates that if the driver is not identified then the registered keeper will be legally liable for the alleged debt.

I also attach another Notice issued by Proserve on the 20th February 2014 for an alleged parking infringement on the 1st February where, once again PoFA cannot apply. I would draw your attention to the penultimate paragraph.

Clearly Proserve seeks to exercise the rights in Schedule 4 of the PoFA as part of its normal business operation when it is not entitled to do so.

It would seem that the terms of that penultimate paragraph are a false representation seeking to make a financial gain from a registered keeper.

I also attach a copy of a letter from the DVLA in which you state that Proserve can only use Data to seek to identify a driver. It cannot use that data for any other purpose, such as, for example, pursuing the registered keeper. It seems that the reason for your decision is that you provide registered keeper data to Proserve after the 14 day period for Proserve to serve a valid Notice to Keeper under paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of PoFA. Having established the limited purpose for which data may be used, but for Proserve to seek to use that data for another purpose, that appears to be a breach of your contract with Proserve and of the Second Data Protection principle.

In your letter of the 21st August 2014 you state the DVLA policy that -

"We have made it clear that, should we become aware of any company seeking to pursue claims under PoFA’s provisions where these do not apply, no more data will be made available to the company in relation to those particular car parks until the situation is remedied."

Accordingly, in pursuance of that assurance I now expect that Proserve will be suspended from access to your database until such time as it has remedied its approach to parking enforcement.

Please confirm that this has been put in place."

Please note highlighted bold & italicised section.

[joshing]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

You need a Cloggy.....

Do not pay yet - I've asked him to pop in

** I'd like to see how a judge deemed their *damages* cos £150 without evidence of any damage or losses to that effect seem extortionate to say the least, however you won't be paying this most likely

Thanks Niddy our luck seems to be just getting worse. The cars mobility, log books not in our name so ??? you would think theyd check badges etc. Suppose its the path thats done it but so unfair.

[joshing]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

My daughter had a private parking ticket just after the new legislation came in last year(?)..... but we ignored it anyway.

It did the rounds with Newlyn debt collectors; with the balance increasing each time. They gave up after about 6 letters..... but I compiled a load of arguments to defend with at the time, just in case. I seem to remember one of these was to do with contractual law; since she had not entered a contract with them, they had no right to fine her.

**Edit** Bloody Hell!! That's one feck of a fine though!! Cheeky bar stewards......

Yep! totally unfair. I phoned to say blue badges were on show but they just said appeal but you were on the path.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Cannot believe our luck, got a letter today and lovely photo. What do everyone think do we have to pay? Had blue badge up as double yellow lines, half on path as hgvs come along all the time, was there ten mins to grab a packet of screws. The thing i cannot make out is the car behind us and then not. It wasnt there when we pulled up.Talk about ripping people off £150!!!!

Whilst you may have committed various offences contrary to one or other of the Road Traffic Acts, such as parking on a double yellow line and obstruction of part of the pavement, this tom-fool "Charge Notice" letter make no reference whatever to such infringements but, instead, blathers on about an alleged breach of contract and an allegedly unauthorised trespass. This is odd, as double yellow lines have no effect whatever on private land - they only apply to the public highway and, even then, must be authorised by a parking restrictions order.

The vehicle seems to have been parked on the public highway - could you confirm that this was so?

If it was on the public highway, their claims fall to the ground at once and may even constitute an attempted fraud by misrepresentation.

Even if the vehicle have been parked on private land, their claim for £150 damages for "breach of contract" and/or "unauthorised trespass" (sic) seems confused and arbitrary. Putting them to strict proof of those alleged damages might be fun, as the landowner seems not to have suffered any loss whatsoever, whilst it might also be fun to ask who their lawyer is, if only to ask him/her about the tautology of "unauthorised trespass" and in which edition of the Perry Mason Annual they read such nonsense. Trespass is inherently unauthorised...

The letter makes no reference whatever to the law, or to the right of appeal to POPLA; for that reason alone, I believe that POPLA should allow an appeal to succeed. Of course, that would only apply if the alleged infringement happened on private land - if it was on the highway, those chancers have no right at all to any money.

Concisely, it looks like an attempted con trick and should be reported to Trading Standards ---> link

[PriorityOne]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Yep! totally unfair. I phoned to say blue badges were on show but they just said appeal but you were on the path.

Never phone them.... Golden rule, that one. They won't care what you have to say anyway......

[colonelsensibl]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Unfortunately because Proserve isn't a member of the BPA, you can't appeal to POPLA. It is a con, but from what I can see on other forums, it's a very litigious con, with dubious arguments that should readily be refuted in court.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

There seems to be lots of advice on many forums about how to fight these charge notices, and win.

The best forum is http://www.pepipoo.com as they concentrate on motoring law.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Oh Shi******** private enforcement parking ticket.

Never phone them.... Golden rule, that one. They won't care what you have to say anyway......

Or do call them, if - and only if - you can record the call.

Just don't tell them that you've recorded it...