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  • #1

    Term time holiday fines

    I'm interested in knowing the actual legislation behind the fines.. what I mean is what is their reason for asking for money?

    Is it simply the child wasn't unwell, wasn't at school so therefore you pay up... regardless of any legalities?

    Or is it soley based on missing the education being given over the missed days.... if so then how does this fit in with the last few days of Summer term when activities in the school are mainly parties, clearing walls of posters etc and sports day.. would one get a fine if the school closed on say the 18th of July and you took the child out on the 16th.. so missing the last two days of sports day and party day?

    Also, does this include current 6th form students... I say current as the rules have changed and school leaving age is now 18 but current 6th formers are in fact still under the 16 year old school leavers age, do they have the same rules about access to education as younger students?
    Tags: act, bank, bbc, block, child, children, cold, comi, council, court, cuba, date, education, england, facebook, family, fine, fined, fines, friday, funding, government, holiday, holidays, home, ireland, jail, kids, law, legal, legislation, life, lost, money, penalty, petition, prosecution, rules, schools, special, wales, world, £50
  • #2
    Re: Term time holiday fines

    There was a chap on TV earlier who said there was a petition to change the rules to 4 weeks summer holiday and two weeks 'floating' allowed time off for parents to chose when to take their children out... taking into account exams etc etc..

    i think this is a good idea.. with some tweaking of course.

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    • #3
      Re: Term time holiday fines

      Read this, it's all explained in this horror story --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-25733272


      School attendance rules

      Katherine Sellgren
      BBC News education reporter
      Parents in England and Wales have a legal responsibility to ensure their children attend school (unless they have opted to home-educate them). If they fail to do so, they are committing an offence under Section 444 of the Education Act 1996.


      Parents can put in requests for term-time holidays, but these requests are granted or refused entirely at the head teacher's discretion and are not a parental right.


      Heads in England were previously able to grant up to 10 days of leave a year for family holidays in "special circumstances". But since 1 September 2013, they have no longer been able to grant any absence in term time except under "exceptional circumstances".


      In Northern Ireland, the majority of family holidays taken during term time are categorised as an unauthorised absence.


      If parents in England and Wales fail to ensure their children attend school, they may be issued with penalty notices of £50 to £100. Prosecution can result in a fine of up to £2,500, a jail sentence of up to three months or a community sentence.
      Its all f*cked up. It really is........
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      • #4
        Re: Term time holiday fines

        The thing is nowadays more and more Academies are coming into the fray and they tend to have a 6week block prior to a week off so you'll find an academy is possibly the way forward as the kids get more regular time off allowing holidays to be taken outside the main summer hols....
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        • #5
          Re: Term time holiday fines

          Originally posted by patchouli View Post
          There was a chap on TV earlier who said there was a petition to change the rules to 4 weeks summer holiday and two weeks 'floating' allowed time off for parents to chose when to take their children out... taking into account exams etc etc..

          i think this is a good idea.. with some tweaking of course.
          this was the man mentioned in the article above, that said this (in court).... Rejected.
          I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

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          • #6
            Re: Term time holiday fines

            yeah I saw that on TV this morning but it doesn't explain what gives the Government the RIGHT to impose these fines.

            I mean if someone in a uniform came up to you in the street and said "Sorry Sir, you shouldn't be walking down this street I'm giving you this £60 fine"

            You'd want to know why and wouldn't accept "You just shouldn't walk down this street" as an answer... What gives them the right to fine me if I decide to take my children out of school for say a long weekend missing (this is make believe) 2 Math, 2 Literacy, 1 PE Lesson an assembly and a make a man out of clothes pegs lesson and take them instead to say London to show them round Buckingham Palace, The Tower, Museums, Madam T's etc etc etc....

            If their parent had written and photographic evidence that the child was in fact receiving more education than they would had they been at school .. would they still be fined? If so then it must be a fine for the sake of making money and not based on any 'harm' done to the childs education...

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            • #7
              Re: Term time holiday fines

              It does tell you, read my quote!! "S444 of Education Act 1996"......
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              • #8
                Re: Term time holiday fines

                Sorry, when I read that post it didn't have a quote in it. I see now it has.. sorry

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Term time holiday fines

                  Right so taking my scenario above.. this is the bit that would be the reason for the fine:

                  (1)If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence.

                  (1A)If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
                  So if the child is say at 98% attendance and misses two days of school to go on a holiday which IS educational then surely no offence has been committed. ??

                  This is not for me by the way lol just me musing as I think this 'new law' is shyte!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Term time holiday fines

                    Thing is most laws are shyte, this is no exception. We need case law to fight and take things forward but with idiotic judgments like that in the case above, well it beggars belief - it really does.

                    The thing is when we used to take the kids out, I used to just write to the school the day before the holiday and say DD won't be in for two weeks, see you on X date. If they tried to fine me I'd have ignored them and/or told the school to get lost, in retrospect I could have been the one to lose thousands like the family in the story above but the thing was, our kids schools were pretty decent with things like that.

                    We're becoming a communist state, it's happening around us and before long we will be a cold-Cuba, minus the revolution.
                    I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Term time holiday fines

                      This is a typical example of laws being introduced with good intentions but then being abused to punish those it wasn't really ever intended to.

                      The legislation was intended to act as a deterrent to those parents whose kids just didn't bother turning up for school, or who couldn't be bothered to send their kids to school. So interesting thing is how many of these people have actually been prosecuted under this act?

                      Instead headteachers are targeting families who are taking their kids out of school either in the last couple of days of term, or at the beginning of September, typically when not much is being taught anyway, because if they don't they won't be able to get a family holiday.

                      Why are they being targeted? Because, simply, chances are they will cough up the fine. The feckless who don't give a sh1t about their kids going to school are hardly likely to give a sh1t about paying a fine either and are unlikely to be pursued through the courts yet these are primarily the very people the law was intended to target.
                      "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

                      The consumer is that sleeping giant.!!


                      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Term time holiday fines

                        So who does the initial 'snitching' is it the school telling the LEA that a child was missing presumed holidaying or is it the LEA looking at attendance records saying "OK why was Timmy Mallet not in school on the two days before start of Easter Holidays?"

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                        • #13
                          Re: Term time holiday fines

                          Originally posted by patchouli View Post
                          So who does the initial 'snitching' is it the school telling the LEA that a child was missing presumed holidaying or is it the LEA looking at attendance records saying "OK why was Timmy Mallet not in school on the two days before start of Easter Holidays?"
                          Probably starts with the kids coming back with a tan and letting slip they've been on holiday or putting it on their Facebook pages
                          "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

                          The consumer is that sleeping giant.!!


                          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                          If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Term time holiday fines

                            Yes but is it the school that does the "Timmy has been off, here is your fine" or do they tell the LEA or does the LEA see from files?

                            I'm wondering you see if this is open to corruption (what isn't nowadays) whereby say Mr Frank is in the Masons with the head teacher and the head decides to overlook Mr Franks childs absence.

                            Also, is it just block absences or is it like I suggested above also taking into account Friday missed before a Bank Holiday Monday type affair is reported too?

                            The words "fails to attend regularly" ... what does that mean!! What constitutes regular? 90% attendance... 98% attendance..? If the child is on the 98% would the school say "Oh well Timmy is usually at school lets give the parents a warning only" or are their hands tied by legislature that means all are fined.

                            And where is this money going?? Who administers it and what bank etc etc?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Term time holiday fines

                              ONLY the LA (council) can issue the fines so the school report you to them for one reason and one reason only, to issue said fine.

                              the school issue their own fines, via the council hence the answer is the school itself fines the parents.
                              I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                              If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

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