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MisterK UE Diary

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  • MisterK UE Diary

    Here is my diary at last.

    (A little local difficulty getting the username agreed with MrsK, but everybody's happy now I'm pleased to say).

    About six years ago, in need of some help and well before I found AAD, I paid some money over to some CMC's to get "certificates of unenforceability" for some of our credit cards. Would have been good if it were possible but sadly it didn't turn out that way - so we decided to carry on paying as we could just about manage to do so and it wasn't a very good idea to have our CRA files trashed at the time.

    Now things have moved on, it has become very difficult to continue and so it's time for a different strategy that doesn't involve constantly handing over every penny to the banks. Otherwise I shall never retire.

    I found AAD about a year ago but took some time to get started because I tend to overthink and wasn't sure that UE was the best way to go. So now I can say I've read all the diaries here, asked Niddy a few questions (well, more than a few) and things are now well under way with the UE journey.

    This diary is going to include Mrs K's accounts. We are retired, won't be applying for credit in future, own our own house (with mortgage) and so will have to keep a sharp lookout for any sudden CCJ/CO type attacks.

    We've stopped paying about a dozen unsecured accounts totalling something like 140K between us. They are all pre-2007 and all but one seems to be UE. The exception is one that is pre-1985 with no upgrade agreement. We have others that are pre-1985 but all those are likely to be UE as well because they were upgraded after 1985 but before 2007.

    I obtained some CCA's in 2010 (via the CMC's) and others more recently since discovering AAD. Niddy has checked them out and the future looks a lot brighter now. Mostly they are still with the OC and haven't yet moved on to DCA stage, so nothing too dramatic has happened yet apart from a barrage of unanswered telephone calls and letters.

    So I'll start with three UE accounts where I have letters saying that the agreements can't be found and I'll add to these over the next few weeks or so. These three were the first that I put into the process and I am not expecting all the others to go as smoothly as these three have so far. All our accounts are credit cards except for one account which is a kind of renewable loan without a card.

    I hope that my experiences will be helpful to other people contemplating this course of action. I have been inspired to finally take action by amongst others, the stories of Alland and Phoenix (Mouseanne) and of course the legendary Niddy himself. The decision I made to follow this path is not the right decision for everyone and I wouldn't suggest that anyone follows it without carefully thinking through whether or not it is the right course of action.

    But if your back is really against the wall, your debts are unsustainable, you preferably have a good nerve or be willing to acquire one, can keep proper records, are willing to learn, can think through the likelihood of not needing credit for a few years and can follow process even when you yourself are uncertain about some of the detail - then with the help of this excellent forum, this could be for you.
    Last edited by MisterK; 30th April 2017, 09:04.

  • #2
    MisterK UE Diary

    NatWest (1)

    Start date: 1989
    Balance: 10K+
    Last full payment: May 2016
    Status: Not paying
    Owner: Lender

    Key

    sent
    received
    my comment

    2010

    January s.87 CCA request sent
    February Letter received advising that agreement has been misfiled, unable to locate it.
    After HSBC v Carey I decided not to pursue UE for the time being and so payments were continued. I had to change my mind in 2016.

    2016

    July Stopped payments
    July to September Several letters received demanding payment
    September s.87 (1) DN received together with letter stating “Court action can only be taken if we subsequently fulfil the section 78(1) request you made under the Consumer Credit Act” Interesting that I had not reminded them of the CCA request made in 2010 yet they had been able to point this out to me more than 6 years later.
    October Account terminated, full payment now required.
    November Threatened to refer debt to external DCA
    November Another s.87 (1) DN received. This time there is no mention of the s.78(1) request.
    November Default fees charged. But account was terminated in October
    December Account terminated again

    2017

    January Threatened to refer debt to external DCA
    February They say that I agreed a repayment programme (rubbish!) and are concerned that no monthly payment has been received. Unless payments are received they will have no alternative but to consider further action and if so will let me know.

    July Letter received asking me to contact them as a “matter of urgency”.
    September A word for word repeat of the letter sent in February.
    11 October Update. A creditor is entitled to ask that an alleged debt be repaid but as they have admitted that it is unenforceable there is little they can do but continue to ask. So I will continue to ignore these demands unless court action is threatened at which point it may become necessary to forward to them (or any subsequent purchaser) a copy of the letter I received from them in September 2016.
    Last edited by MisterK; 11th October 2017, 11:55. Reason: Updated

    Comment


    • #3
      MisterK UE Diary

      RBS (1)

      Start date: 1997
      Balance: 10K+
      Last full payment: June 2016
      Status: Not paying
      Owner: Lender

      Key


      sent
      received
      my comment

      2010

      March s.87 CCA request sent
      April Letter received advising that agreement has been misfiled, unable to locate it.
      After HSBC v Carey I decided not to pursue UE for the time being and so payments were continued. I had to change my mind in 2016.

      2016

      July Stopped payments
      July to September Several letters received demanding payment
      September s.87 (1) DN received together with letter stating “Court action can only be taken if we subsequently fulfil the section 78(1) request you made under the Consumer Credit Act”Interesting that I had not reminded them of the CCA request made in 2010 yet they had been able to point this out to me more than 6 years later.
      OctoberAccount terminated, full payment now required.
      November Threatened to refer debt to external DCA

      2017

      Situation as at 11 OCT 2017
      Nothing has been heard since November 2016, statements no longer being received, I have not responded to any letter or telephone call from them.
      Last edited by MisterK; 11th October 2017, 11:57. Reason: Update

      Comment


      • #4
        MisterK UE Diary

        RBS (2)

        Start date: 1999
        Balance: 3K+
        Last full payment: July 2016
        Status: Not paying
        Owner: Lender

        Key


        sent
        received
        my comment

        2010

        February s.87 CCA request sent
        March Letter received advising that agreement has been misfiled, unable to locate it.
        After HSBC v Carey I decided not to pursue UE for the time being and so payments were continued. I had to change my mind in 2016.

        2016

        August Stopped payments
        August to October Several letters received demanding payment
        October s.87 (1) DN received together with letter stating “Court action can only be taken if we subsequently fulfil the section 78(1) request you made under the Consumer Credit Act”Interesting that I had not reminded them of the CCA request made in 2010 yet they had been able to point this out to me more than 6 years later.
        NovemberAccount terminated, full payment now required.
        November Threatened to refer debt to external DCA

        2017

        Situation as at 11 OCT 2017
        Nothing has been heard since November 2016, statements no longer being received, I have not responded to any letter or telephone call from them.
        Last edited by MisterK; 11th October 2017, 11:57. Reason: Update

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: MisterK UE Diary

          Hello and welcome MisterK.
          thanks for the start of your diary, along with the start of your journey with the AAD family

          NW xx
          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

          If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

          Comment


          • #6
            BARCLAYCARD (1)

            Start date: 1990
            Balance: 13K+
            Last full payment: November 2016
            Status: Not paying
            Owner: Hoist


            Key

            sent
            received
            my comment

            2016

            July SAR received.

            2017

            January s.78 CCA requested
            January s.78 CCA recon received. This consists of two pages, first has my name & address plus the “Your right to cancel” paragraph, second page is “Barclaycard conditions of use” with an undated set of T&C. This is clearly not enforceable and is confirmed as such by Niddy.
            January to April Various letters received requesting payment and contact.
            May s.87 (1) DN received
            June Account closed, full payment now required.
            August Barclaycard inform me that the account was assigned and transferred by Barclaycard to Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited (HPH) in July and that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd have been appointed as their servicing agent.
            August HPH inform me that Barclaycard have assigned rights, title & interest to HPH & that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd have been appointed to manage the account.
            August Introductory letter from Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited
            August Moorcroft want to establish a repayment plan and request a repayment proposal
            September Another request by Moorcroft to set up a monthly repayment plan.
            September Request by Moorcroft to set up a monthly repayment plan or they can offer a partial settlement figure if contacted.
            October Moorcroft write to say they may be able to offer a discount from the outstanding balance.
            November Moorcroft write to say they have been unable to agree an affordable repayment plan and so will continue with their attempts to make contact by letter and phone.
            December Robinson Way write to say that their client HPH Ltd have asked them to agree an affordable repayment plan and that if I do not get in touch then they will advise of further collection activity which could typically include referring the account to their client’s solicitors and asking them to issue a County Court Claim which could result in a County Court Judgement being entered.
            Last edited by MisterK; 18th February 2018, 12:10.

            Comment


            • #7
              As this has now got to the stage where possible legal action is being mentioned would it be a good idea for me to send the missing PT template now or is it still too early to do this. This would be the first contact made since the CCA request was sent (12 months ago).

              I'm concerned that by giving them any information too soon I might be helping them to produce a more effective recon - so prefer to leave making contact until I really have to. On the other hand it's probably a good idea to frustrate any intentions they may have of making a claim.

              Any comments on the issue are most welcome, thank you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MisterK View Post
                As this has now got to the stage where possible legal action is being mentioned would it be a good idea for me to send the missing PT template now or is it still too early to do this. This would be the first contact made since the CCA request was sent (12 months ago).

                I'm concerned that by giving them any information too soon I might be helping them to produce a more effective recon - so prefer to leave making contact until I really have to. On the other hand it's probably a good idea to frustrate any intentions they may have of making a claim.

                Any comments on the issue are most welcome, thank you.
                What a beautifully set out Diary!

                I would have thought that a SWID was more appropriate rather than a missing P/T's !

                Your CCA request was to Barclaycard January 2017.

                The Assignment August 2017
                August Barclaycard inform me that the account was assigned and transferred by Barclaycard to Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited (HPH) in July and that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd have been appointed as their servicing agent.
                August HPH inform me that Barclaycard have assigned rights, title & interest to HPH & that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd have been appointed to manage the account.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roger View Post
                  I would have thought that a SWID was more appropriate rather than a missing P/T's !

                  Your CCA request was to Barclaycard January 2017.
                  I agree with that

                  There appears to have been no contact with the current owner or their agent (Hoist/Robinson Way) since the debt was assigned last year so this will be the first time they'll have been made aware that there is a dispute.

                  Di
                  Legal Disclaimer

                  I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                  Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roger View Post

                    I would have thought that a SWID was more appropriate rather than a missing P/T's !
                    So would I.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks very much for the input Di, Roger, & SW. Is it too early to send the SWID now? is there anything to be gained by waiting until they up the pressure? Or is it not time critical.

                      Also, does anyone know where I can find the correct SWID template please? I've found the one called "CCA Query - Account Sold in CCA Dispute-1.doc" but that seems to be all about the creditor not acknowledging the CCA request.

                      BC did acknowledge the CCA request in January 2017 but they replied with a recon that is unenforceable. This is probably not unusual so I don't think I've found the right template yet. I'm a subscriber to AAD+ but can only find the one about them not acknowledging.
                      Last edited by MisterK; 9th January 2018, 21:49.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I do not think that BC response was an acceptable acknowledgement of your CCA request. in line with CCA 1974! The letter seems entirely appropriate. .

                        AA+ SWID Section 3 - Requests to Comply Account Sold whilst in Dispute
                        Last edited by Roger; 10th January 2018, 00:05.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MisterK View Post
                          Thanks very much for the input Di, Roger, & SW. Is it too early to send the SWID now? is there anything to be gained by waiting until they up the pressure? Or is it not time critical.
                          As it appears to be the first letter from RW, I would be tempted to wait for their next and then consider responding with the SWID letter.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BARCLAYCARD (1)

                            Start date: 1990
                            Balance: 13K+
                            Last full payment: November 2016
                            Status: Not paying
                            Owner: Hoist


                            Key

                            sent
                            received
                            my comment

                            2016

                            July SAR received.

                            2017

                            January s.78 CCA requested
                            January s.78 CCA recon received. This consists of two pages, first has my name & address plus the “Your right to cancel” paragraph, second page is “Barclaycard conditions of use” with an undated set of T&C. This is clearly not enforceable and is confirmed as such by Niddy.
                            January to April Various letters received requesting payment and contact.
                            May s.87 (1) DN received
                            June Account closed, full payment now required.
                            August Barclaycard inform me that the account was assigned and transferred by Barclaycard to Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited (HPH) in July and that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd have been appointed as their servicing agent.
                            August HPH inform me that Barclaycard have assigned rights, title & interest to HPH & that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd have been appointed to manage the account.
                            August Introductory letter from Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited
                            August Moorcroft want to establish a repayment plan and request a repayment proposal
                            September Another request by Moorcroft to set up a monthly repayment plan.
                            September Request by Moorcroft to set up a monthly repayment plan or they can offer a partial settlement figure if contacted.
                            October Moorcroft write to say they may be able to offer a discount from the outstanding balance.
                            November Moorcroft write to say they have been unable to agree an affordable repayment plan and so will continue with their attempts to make contact by letter and phone.
                            December Robinson Way write to say that their client HPH Ltd have asked them to agree an affordable repayment plan and that if I do not get in touch then they will advise of further collection activity which could typically include referring the account to their client’s solicitors and asking them to issue a County Court Claim which could result in a County Court Judgement being entered.

                            2018

                            January Robinson Way write to say they want to work out an affordable payment plan or they could offer a reduced settlement amount.
                            January Robinson Way write to offer a 25% discount off the balance.
                            February Robinson Way send a “Pre-Legal Assessment” letter. They have “assessed the account and established that it meets their initial criteria to be considered for legal action”. They go on to say that the account may be transferred to Howard Cohen & Co Solicitors in 10 days "without any further notice". If I would rather agree an affordable repayment plan with them or if I believe that I have a valid dispute relating to the account then I should call them within 10 days of the date of their letter.


                            Thank you for your wise words Di, Roger & SW. As you can see they have now stepped it up a notch by threatening to send the account to Howard Cohen solicitors. I am a great believer in the "Silence is Golden" rule. However as Di has pointed out (above) I have made no contact with the current owner or their agent (Hoist/Robinson Way) since the debt was assigned last year and so this may now be the time to send SWID template letter in order to deflect a claim at this point in time (the account is UE).

                            On the other hand they say only that they "may" transfer the account to Howard Cohen, not that they "will" do this. This could be a random template letter, even caused by pressing the wrong button. I don't want to break the "Silence is Golden" rule too early nor do I want to break it too late.

                            Any further opinion on the timing of this would be most welcome, thank you.
                            Last edited by MisterK; 18th February 2018, 12:09.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You have prepared yourself well
                              The SAR in the back pocket so to speak. A UE following CCA S.78 to Barclaycard!
                              So why not now issue the SWID
                              The debate is whether you do this earlier or later. This was excellent advice given to me !

                              Originally posted by Pixie View Post
                              This is where I'm different as I liked to send a letter such as SWID pretty much on first contact from a dca then I ignored further letters unless they were really threatening court action etc. IMO if you later sent a SWID they could come back with "so why didn't you tell us that at the start?"
                              Future responses from now on will be in accordance with Pixie's recommendation.

                              Comment

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