Deposit as a tenant

[cymruambyth]

Hi, can anyone please help?

My 20 year old son is getting a small house with his girlfriend. They found somewhere, owned by a friend of a family member. Son paid a deposit and was given a contract to complete, he was also given a key to show me the place.
He subsequently found a better place and phoned the original person to cancel. She didn't take it very well even though she has a waiting list for the place. Son wrote officially, returned key and requested that deposit was refunded. This had been cashed despite no contracts being exchanged.
Two weeks on she has found a new tenant, is still requesting contract which has been shredded and hasn't returned deposit. At no point did she say non refundable deposit.she is saying that contract was a legal document with her husband's signature on.
Does anyone know if there are any legal grounds for any of this before we pay for a lawyer's letter?
Thank you

[Deepie]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

Give planB a PM ------> planB

Ask if she will have a look...

[Pixie]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

Sorry, can't help you Cym

[oscar]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

I'd wait for Plan B but.....

If it is a legal document, how can sehe have new tenants, and HOW can it be a legal document if it is unsigned (by both parties)

[cymruambyth]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

She is playing silly games. I can see no grounds for her behaviour other than bloodymindedness! She was 'upset, angry and disappointed' when son turned away from the tenancy. He isn't her son!

[PlanB]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

My 20 year old son is getting a small house with his girlfriend. They found somewhere, owned by a friend of a family member. Son paid a deposit and was given a contract to complete, he was also given a key to show me the place.
He subsequently found a better place and phoned the original person to cancel. She didn't take it very well even though she has a waiting list for the place. Son wrote officially, returned key and requested that deposit was refunded. This had been cashed despite no contracts being exchanged.
Two weeks on she has found a new tenant, is still requesting contract which has been shredded and hasn't returned deposit. At no point did she say non refundable deposit.she is saying that contract was a legal document with her husband's signature on.
Does anyone know if there are any legal grounds for any of this before we pay for a lawyer's letter?

If this was only a *holding deposit* then it will normally be non-refundable and should state that on the document which Son signed. It's common practice to secure a tenancy this way "subject to references". The deposit is then offset against the rent at the start of the tenancy.

But this sounds like we're talking about an actual tenancy agreement and Son's lucky the Landlord isn't suing him for the whole six months rent due I know he didn't actually sign the document (which may help) but he did take the keys to the house which gave him lawful possession of the property. In effect they had a verbal agreement backed up with written intention with his name all over it.

Depending on whose names were on the AST the Landlord's husband may have been authorised to sign it. Even if son has shredded his copy she will probably still have a her copy as evidence (maybe not ).

The good news is that courts don't allow a Landlord to claim rent twice so if she's re-let the house she hasn't made any loss A lot will depend on whether the Landlord suffered a rent loss during the void (if any) between when Son would have started to pay rent as per the AST and when the replacement tenant actually began paying rent. Your post suggests a two week gap which I'm pretty sure a court would say he should be liable for

My approach would be to bowl underarm before you bowl overarm. You say the house was sourced through a "family friend" so you don't want to risk causing a family rift with a court battle (yet). Likewise the Landlord won't want to be humiliated by looking like a right greedly cow to her family friends.

If it was me I'd offer to cover the lost rent period (if it exists) and a small amount for the 'administration hassle' because despite what people think there's a lot of work to be done to set up a tenancy properly. And then ask for the balance of the deposit to be returned. Now that the Landlord has got new rent coming in she may be less angry and willing to co-operate.

If that fails then you'll have to go to a solicitor which will probably work but you'll have to pay the firm and I don't know how much money was put down as a deposit to know whether it's worth the investment. You could do your own LBA followed by MCOL but expect her to counterclaim for the six months rent

[PlanB]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

I'd wait for Plan B but.....

If it is a legal document, how can sehe have new tenants, and HOW can it be a legal document if it is unsigned (by both parties)

The Son handed back the keys which meant he effectively surrended his tenancy agreement in legal terms He cancelled the contract and walked away from the deal so the Landlord was free to re-let.

The contract didn't need to be signed by either party because a Verbal Tenancy Agreement is lawful but harder to enforce in court. See here:

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.c...agreements.htm

[PlanB]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

She is playing silly games. I can see no grounds for her behaviour other than bloodymindedness! She was 'upset, angry and disappointed' when son turned away from the tenancy. He isn't her son!

By that I take it you too are upset, angry and disappointed and rightly so if it was your money which paid the deposit. If it makes it any better (probably not) I've lost tons of money when my daughter insists she's indepenent and will do things her way. We now have a deal which is if it's my money on the line then she tells the person "talk to my Mummy" and she's 28 years old

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

moved to housing section.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

Hi plans, thanks for your comments. There had been no date agreed for exchange and at no point was it said that the deposit was for anything or that it was non refundable. In the contract it only states that the deposit is for damage or loss. As for loss of rent, I could deal with that as it would only be a week.
She appears to be at her most petulant over the contract having been shredded! That is both copies......

[oscar]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

The Son handed back the keys which meant he effectively surrended his tenancy agreement in legal terms He cancelled the contract and walked away from the deal so the Landlord was free to re-let.

The contract didn't need to be signed by either party because a Verbal Tenancy Agreement is lawful but harder to enforce in court. See here:

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.c...agreements.htm

Fair points, but the way I interpreted the original post was that the key had been given to them to look around the property (which is pretty much what it says)

As far as I am aware, most verbal agreements are binding, not just in housing, but as you say, proving them can be difficult.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

The key was only given to show me the property; none of the cleaning, checks etc had been done.

I did think that a lot of what PlanB said was the case. Family members and friends are being slightly emotional and irrational and I wanted some sense and clarity!

[PlanB]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

The key was only given to show me the property; none of the cleaning, checks etc had been done.

I did think that a lot of what PlanB said was the case. Family members and friends are being slightly emotional and irrational and I wanted some sense and clarity!

I hope what I said is the worst case scenario and your Son will get back most of the deposit less the one week's rent. 'Change of mind' happens a lot to Landords and it's normally settled by simply covering any out-of-pocket expenses such as the agent's fees for re-letting the property. But since this sounds like a private let that won't be the case.

If you say the Landlord has shredded her copy of the tenancy agreement (how bizarre) then she has no evidence the whole thing took place either except for the cashed deposit cheque which would have to be explained away I fear a DJ may not believe the story about the key being given simply to show the property to Mum. Landlords would be crazy to do such a thing when it could lead to squatting

Having said all that, I wouldn't hesitate to issue a solicitor's letter if the balance of the deposit isn't refunded by a speciifc date Call her bluff and sod what your family and friends think.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

If they were given the keys to (VIEW) the contents of a possible Tenancy prior to actually agreeing a Tenancy agreement, then if the Owner fails to be in a possition to accompany a possible new Tenant to inspect the property then surely handing the keys over to the person who may become a Tenant is not an acceptance of an actual agreement before full acceptance??? only for that person to inspect and consider entering into an agreement,i..e. to consider and view what they are signing for before committing themselves = ensuring the item/place is suitable?

[PlanB]

Re: Deposit as a tenant

Maybe the problem in this instance is by paying the deposit as defined in the 'potential' AST and not a 'holding deposit' could be considered as acceptance?