Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

[evilcartman]

I've just come home to find this letter waiting for me.



It's a letter demanding that I sign it to declare that I am the sole occupier of this house (which I am) and consent to let Crapita, the infamous private corporation, store my personal data and cross-check it against credit reference agencies etc. They threaten to take away my council tax single person's 25% discount if I don't return the form within 14 days (OK, I'll just return it then, it doesn't say anything about having to complete it or sign it) and even backdate it. I want to challenge this and demand that the council tells me where in law it states that one has to sign away one's personal data to third parties without consent, where in law it states that the burden of proof is on the householder to prove that they aren't making a fraudulent claim instead of the council proving that they are, and where in law it states that the 25% single person's discount is a privilege, not a right. I don't have any problem with the council taking measures to check whether I really am the sole occupier of the house, that much is fine, but I object to letting my data get into the hands of Crapita, of all organisations. For one thing, Crapita also runs the TV Licensing contract and I get hounded enough by them for the temerity of choosing not to have a TV licence when I have no TV.

Any suggestions on how to proceed? For starters, that letter could easily be a phishing exercise. Why should I believe that this outside organisation is legitimately collecting my data?

[nanna58]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Don't like the sound of of that it does seem like fishing be very carefull.

[Phoenix]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

I am a sole occupier and get the single person council tax discount. I did have something similar a couple of years ago, from an external agency, who used quite scary language, stating that they needed to check if anyone else was registered at my address and that they would check the electoral roll and also check if anyone at this address had any financial arrangements. Unfortunately, I did not keep the letter and do not know who sent it - but I am certain that it was not a Credit Reference Agency. Unless it was a sub-section of one, using a different name.

Also, I did read somewhere that the government is considering scrapping this discount - and, as I live in an area with quite a high level of council tax, this would be quite painful!

[evilcartman]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

A bit of googling has established that a number of councils seem to be using the services of Capita for this sort of thing and, predictably enough, they have been trampling roughshod over people's data protection rights and making innumerable cock-ups, just as they have done with the CRB and TV Licensing etc. The modus operandi is the same as TVL too - " it's for you to prove to us that you're innocent, not for us to prove you're guilty". That's precisely why I object to these shysters having anything to do with my details.

[Phoenix]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

I am now wishing I hadn't just signed the thing I received but had made a stand by querying it with my councillor and even my MP as it clearly is infringing data protection. I was more concerned at the prospect of losing my single person discount.

Would be interested to know what stance you take.

[evilcartman]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

I am now wishing I hadn't just signed the thing I received but had made a stand by querying it with my councillor and even my MP as it clearly is infringing data protection. I was more concerned at the prospect of losing my single person discount.

Would be interested to know what stance you take.

It doesn't look like others have had all that much success, according to my googling so far. I've not seen any sign that they have been forced to roll over anyway. It looks like one would have to go all the way to judicial review and of course access to legal aid is almost non-existent now. So a different tack may be to ask to see their data protection policy, process, their data classification policy, data archiving policy and process documents, saying who can retrieve it, for what reason and how long they can keep it. Unless they are very good, and we know they are not, we could then point out inconsistencies, errors, mistakes, contradictions and holes, then ask for clarification on any points etc.

Will be interesting to see Niddy's take on this if he sees it.

Update: Council emailed, MP emailed. Will phone the council tomorrow and see where we go from there. I'm not phoning Capita, they can f*** off.

[Phoenix]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Every good luck to you in this crusade. I just wish I had given it more thought before signing the dreaded paper ...

[julian]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Where a 3rd party takes over a government or local government account for data processing, there are stipulations on Data Protection, Privacy etc. There are what you call Chinese Walls between projects so hat customer A cannot see customer C's data and vice versa. Normally even project teams are separate with the exclusion of those operating the computers. However, any access is normally audited and monitored. There are normally financial and sometime criminal penalties for beaches.

Just because Capita runs many systems, the are not necessarily joined up. What is wrong is the One Government policy of taking data manipulating and enhancing it from different sources where sharing has not been approved by the provider not just for National Security but for selling it to commercial firms at a discount.

However, you get what you pay for. Vote for Civil Service and Local Government cuts and lose the people with the moral compass to protect your data to those employed by a commercial concern that may not see the hundreds of years of process refinement to get to a system in which the population has confidence. "Why do you care if your data is open to the world, when all my life is on Facebook and Twitter? You are not up with modern thinking. Nothing to hide have you?"

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

I cannot get involved in this sadly. It's too close to home. (Personal reasons)

I would however suggest you sign & return it. Crapita already have your details via TV Licensing, DVLA etc so it's not something you can really do much with. Sometimes creating a hard line stance is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

Good Luck.

[5corpio]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Not too sure, but i think that Capita has taken work away from councils (as i had to renew our city car park pass where we live) But our local council no longer deal with the paper work and Capita now does it. Being informed by Capita that i need to send proof of address etc. Will need to look when i get home tonight if ours was Captia too.

I know that it has no relation to Council Tax, but possibly the Coucnil's are freeing work load up to Capita instead?

[5corpio]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Just bumping my last message: - still unsure if it is managed with Capita reading my e-mails as its gone from City council to County Council no Capita on my e-mails. sorry can't help

[evilcartman]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

I cannot get involved in this sadly. It's too close to home. (Personal reasons)

I would however suggest you sign & return it. Crapita already have your details via TV Licensing, DVLA etc so it's not something you can really do much with. Sometimes creating a hard line stance is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

Good Luck.

Thanks for your input, Niddy.

Just to update, I did in fact send back the form, ticking the box saying I was the sole occupier and crossing out everything else. There was no stated requirement for me to do anything else than "return" the form and it has been duly returned. I have also contacted the council and my MP. The council complaint is currently with the chief executive's department.

Technically, Capita don't already have my name for TV Licencing purposes. Their letters go out to "T Legal-Occupier", as their original generic threatogram was addressed to "The Legal Occupier" and the response was signed digitally by someone in the house as "The Legal-Occupier".

I'll see how the first round of correspondence with the council and Crapita pans out on challenging Crapita's jurisdiction in the matter. It does look like it'll take a judicial review to stop them, though. If it's established that I really do have to "consent" under duress or lose my discount, then I will impose some Terms and Conditions of my own, namely...

1) My personal data (hereinafter referred to as "the data") is provided on a "need to know" basis only and must not be shared with other parties, not even with other departments, branches or subsidiaries of the Capita group.
2) The data must only be used for the express purpose of fraud prevention in respect of my council tax Single Person Discount and all records must be destroyed when it is established that I am in fact living alone at my home, which I have truthfully maintained all along. I reserve the right to be present to witness the destruction of these records.
3) The data must not leave the UK.
4) I require full transparency and full disclosure of any purported 'evidence' against me, so that I may correct any errors of fact or judgement made by Capita employees or agents.
5) Where it is established by a court of law that any allegations made against me are false, Capital will be liable to compensate me for all monetary losses incurred by myself as a result of these false allegations and may further be liable for exemplary damages up to the value of the contract between Capita and Leeds City Council (£100,000). It will also be held liable for criminal charges to the fullest extent of the law.
6) Where it is established by the ICO or by a court of law that my Data Protection Act rights have been breached, Capita will be liable to compensate me for all monetary losses incurred by myself as a result of these damages and may further be liable for exemplary damages up to the value of the contract between Capita and Leeds City Council (£100,000). It will also be held liable for criminal charges to the fullest extent of the law.
7) Any access by Capita or its associates to my personal data in connection with the Single Person Discount or any other query will be deemed as automatic acceptance of these Terms and Conditions, and Capita agrees to be bound by them in an English court of law.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Thanks for your input, Niddy.

Just to update, I did in fact send back the form, ticking the box saying I was the sole occupier and crossing out everything else. There was no stated requirement for me to do anything else than "return" the form and it has been duly returned. I have also contacted the council and my MP. The council complaint is currently with the chief executive's department.

Technically, Capita don't already have my name for TV Licencing purposes. Their letters go out to "T Legal-Occupier", as their original generic threatogram was addressed to "The Legal Occupier" and the response was signed digitally by someone in the house as "The Legal-Occupier".

I'll see how the first round of correspondence with the council and Crapita pans out on challenging Crapita's jurisdiction in the matter. It does look like it'll take a judicial review to stop them, though. If it's established that I really do have to "consent" under duress or lose my discount, then I will impose some Terms and Conditions of my own, namely...

1) My personal data (hereinafter referred to as "the data") is provided on a "need to know" basis only and must not be shared with other parties, not even with other departments, branches or subsidiaries of the Capita group.
2) The data must only be used for the express purpose of fraud prevention in respect of my council tax Single Person Discount and all records must be destroyed when it is established that I am in fact living alone at my home, which I have truthfully maintained all along. I reserve the right to be present to witness the destruction of these records.
3) The data must not leave the UK.
4) I require full transparency and full disclosure of any purported 'evidence' against me, so that I may correct any errors of fact or judgement made by Capita employees or agents.
5) Where it is established by a court of law that any allegations made against me are false, Capital will be liable to compensate me for all monetary losses incurred by myself as a result of these false allegations and may further be liable for exemplary damages up to the value of the contract between Capita and Leeds City Council (£100,000). It will also be held liable for criminal charges to the fullest extent of the law.
6) Where it is established by the ICO or by a court of law that my Data Protection Act rights have been breached, Capita will be liable to compensate me for all monetary losses incurred by myself as a result of these damages and may further be liable for exemplary damages up to the value of the contract between Capita and Leeds City Council (£100,000). It will also be held liable for criminal charges to the fullest extent of the law.
7) Any access by Capita or its associates to my personal data in connection with the Single Person Discount or any other query will be deemed as automatic acceptance of these Terms and Conditions, and Capita agrees to be bound by them in an English court of law.

I love the way you think - you have waaaaay too much time on your hands

Go get em

[evilcartman]

Re: Sign away your data to Crapita or we'll stop your single person council tax discount!

Just to update, I escalated it to the council's chief executive a few days ago.

I had an email from the head of the council tax department today, answering various points that I raised but, to cut a long story short, the crucial bit is:
"I confirm that I have instructed Capita to close down the review and I confirm that the single person discount remains on your account."