[CLOSED] - Continues in AAD+ Legal - Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

[Vonny71]

Your AAD Forum Username

Vonny71

Name of Claimant

Patrick Brennan

Name of Claimant's Solicitors

Fishers

Claim Issue Date

29 December 2015

Who Signed the Claim Form?

The Solicitor Firm (i.e. Joe Blogs Solicitor)

How much is being Claimed?

Over £10,000

Have you Submitted the AoS Response?

Yes

If Yes, when was the AoS Submitted

\

Details of Claim

My business partner offered to have finance in his name for a car back in March 2013, he offered to pay the monthly payments until I was in a financial position to do so, I have unfortunately never been in a financial position to do take them on, for the first 12 months if the the agreement in pressure or request was out on me to take the payments over, yet since I started a new relationship 12 months ago things quickly turned nasty, I have now received a county court money claim for £14,820.77
Previous to this claim my father set up a direct debit to him to make the payments, the claimant returned the money, cancelled the direct debit and sent me an email stating the money was to be paid by me and me only.

Nothing is in my name, I signed no agreement and it states in his claim that it's based on a verbal agreement.

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Copied from Vinny's thread:

Was really unsure where to post this one, hopefully this will reach the right area.

I'm going to try and be as direct, clear and concise as I can be, not been on any forum like this before and am really hoping for some help.

During March 2013 I was looking for a car, I was looking for an older vehicle to buy outright... I was then made the offer by my business partner of 20 years that he would have finance in his name so I could have a "new" car, he suggested that I use the money I had as the deposit ... I explained that I was reluctant to do this as I was concerned that the monthly payments would be too much .... Yet he offered to take on and pay the monthly payments and that when and if I was able I could take the payments over in the future ... in the first 12 months since that agreement was taken out I was not in a position financially to do this, and no pressure was put upon me by him to do so.


I am a single mother and have been for the last 8 years, 12 months ago I met some new and from the minute I told my business partner about my new relationship everything changed, over the last 12 months he has threatened me, harassed me, slagged me off to anyone who will listen, and around 7/8 months ago he started to "demand" that I take the payments over for the vehicle or he would repossess the car, I replied that I would try and sort something but explained that I was still not in a position financially ..... there would then be no contact for 3/4 weeks from him but then the demanding/court threatening emails would start again, this has gone on since February 2015, he has also started harassing me business wise, such as blocking me from the business bank accounts & also threatened my job several times.


I had not heard anything for 2/3 months, then 2 days before Christmas (23rd) I received a "county court money claim" from him and his solicitors, it states that I have made a "repudiatory breach" of the oral contract and as a result he has suffered loss and damage.


The claim is for:


£14,019.79 in full to him for the car or directly to Fiat to end the HP agreement.


Also interest on those damages under section 35a of the senior courts act 1981 to be assessed.


One thing I want to state is that following one of his previous demand emails I spoke to my father and told him everything, he offered to take the payments on for me, which I was massively grateful for and enormously relieved ... he setup a direct debit, however as soon as the direct debit was setup and the first payment hit his account he returned it to my father, cancelled the direct debit and sent me an email stating that I and I only was to settle this debt !! ... I am terrified of ending up in court, I'm scared I could lose my home, but I just don't have this money, I am currently over drawn !!


The facts in short if it helps are:


No paper work is in my name.


I signed nothing.


His "county court money claim" is based on a verbal agreement.


I am happy to return the car to him or fiat.


My father setup a direct debit to fulfil his demands yet he returned it, cancelled it and stated that only I was to pay.


I have until Tuesday the 12th January to make a response.


Any help or advice would be massively appreciated.


Thank you

Sent from my iPhone

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Hello Vonny and

What a sorry mess. It's always sad when a business relationship turns sour especially after 20 years.

It does sound as if the arrival of a new man in your life has triggered this angry reaction in your business partner which is such a shame. He should be happy for you. I am. Maybe there are Male Ego issues behind all this spitefulness

Anyway there's a court claim which needs dealing with so let's see what we can do to help.

This is an unusual claim because it's not from a creditor, and from what you say you don't owe anyone any money except possibly the 'value' of the HP payments he's made so far but only if he can prove there was a verbal agreement between you both to pay them to him. A judge would prefer to see a written agreement unless there was any witness to the verbal agreement or follow-up emails confirming it etc.

He's a grown man and he entered into a credit agreement with a credit provider with his eyes wide open. You didn't hold a gun to his head.

I don't care what he says he can't "repossess" the car because he doesn't own it. At the moment it's owned by the finance company so only they can repossess it and then only in line with their Terms & Conditions on missed payments etc. (They can't repossess without a court order if one third of the total repayments have been made.) If he stops making payments then it's his credit file that will get damaged (not yours) which I'm sure he won't want that because it could have a negative impact on his business in future.

There's lots to explore here once we have got the full story.

Can I ask you to start a new thread in this section so we can take things from there http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post461134

Try not to worry

We'll continue on this thread from now on

Plan B x

[Susiebling365]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Wow nothing like a man scorned... from someone who was chased for a vehicle debt for over 10 years on the basis that I signed... you re in a better position as you haven't signed anything. .... Plan B will help you sort this ...as will the others on this site.. so try not to stress too much

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Whose name is on the logbook (V5)?

Most terms of car finance deals will have you declare that you (the borrower) are the registered owner and keeper of the vehicle and that you are the main driver. If your business partner declared that (which was a lie) then it could be said he's committed fraud.

Your business partner may have opened up a can of worms with his claim.

How long is left to run on the HP agreement which started in March 2013? He may be in a position to return the vehicle and pay no more depending on the terms of the agreement. That could be awkward if his name isn't on the V5. Have you seen the agreement or better still have you got a copy?

From what you say he's claiming the recovery of the payments he's made so far and is not content for your father to simply pay the future ones. I assume you have a receipt or some evidence that you paid the deposit?

Plan B x

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Thanks for the encouraging words susie xx

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Hi Plan B

The V5 log book is 100% in his name, he is the registered keeper.

I have proof of the £1500 deposit I paid

I have a full copy of the HP finance agreement.

The finance ends in March 2017

Thanks x

[marypoppins]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

What a git of a business partner!

I agree with PlanB, sounds like a very strong case of sour grapes because of your new relationship!

What an idiot to refuse payment, return whatever was paid and then issue a claim!

I'd keep that email very safe where he's refused payments from your father and would only accept them from you.

Can you prove that the payments went out of your fathers account and the way in which they were returned?

At least you're here now and in the right place.

[marypoppins]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

It's been a long time since I worked for a finance company and if the rules are still the same and it a standard HP agreement then once half the total purchase price has been paid, the car can be returned under 'Voluntary Termination', after which point, the only extra due would be any arrears at the point of termination and possible costs for any damage to the vehicle.

If you have a copy of the agreement, it should give the amounts of the 'halves & thirds' somewhere on it so have a look and see what the half figure is, if it's up to date, you can calculate (roughly) how much he has paid.

If this is the case, he could have terminated the account and pursued you for the payments he made, although this would still have to be proved.

My husband VT'd a car that we had, after he had to take early retirement and it had no detriment to his credit file. (I am going back about 15 years ago!)

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

The V5 log book is 100% in his name, he is the registered keeper.

I have proof of the £1500 deposit I paid

I have a full copy of the HP finance agreement.

Well if the HP agreement is in his name and the log book is in his name and he's the registered keeper then he's got a problem since he's 100% liable for all the payments.

I suppose if he turned up in the middle of the night with a tow truck and took the vehicle away he could hardly be accused of theft.

As Mary says he may be able to go ahead with a voluntary termination to end his liability, but even if he does that from what you say he wants back all the money he's been paying the finance company every month since March 2013.

Email a copy of the front page of the court claim (N1) to PlanB@all-about-debt.co.uk with a copy to webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk so we can see exactly what money he's claiming and why he thinks he's entitled to it. Don't blank anything out because it's perfectly secure.

Also email a copy of the finance agreement.

Can I check the date situation. In your first post you say the claim issue date was 29th December yet in another post you say it was two days before Christmas 23rd December. You have 28 days plus five days for postal service to file your Defence so we need to be accurate. It looks like you've filed the AOS presumably ticking the box which says you intend to defend all of the claim?

Plan B x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

You're in safe hands now. If we can help you to win then we will do.

Please email the claim as requested above. Thanks.

[SXGuy]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Surely the best thing to do now is hand the car back since that could reduce liability to the point the car was no longer in ops possession?

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Thanks so much for this help ...

I will get images of documents sent as soon as I get home tonight. X

[marypoppins]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Surely the best thing to do now is hand the car back since that could reduce liability to the point the car was no longer in ops possession?

That's certainly an option to consider and IF it got to court, the defendant would be able to prove that every effort was been made to solve the issue, by attempting to pay her business partner and return the car to him.

[SXGuy]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Just a thought because a judge could say. On balance there was a verbal agreement otherwise why would the car be in ops possession while the business partner was paying for it if there wasn't an agreement. At least when the cars handed back he can't claim any more than up to the point it was handed back. Not only this but morally if the op can not see a situation where the finance will ever be paid by them then technically the car should be given back.