[CLOSED] - Continues in AAD+ Legal - Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Sorry, Just to be clear PlanB ... I received the county court claim on the 23rd ... but the stamped date of service was the 29th ... X

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Thanks for emailing a copy of the claim. This was personal service not MCOL hence the confusion on the dates. There are no solicitors named on the court paperwork.

At first glance your business partner is claiming two things. Firstly the money he's paid already in monthly instalments (£6k approx), and secondly the money which would be due to terminate the HP contract early (£14k approx) and keep the car, but money he hasn't actually had to pay yet since the agreement runs until March 2017.

It's based on an oral contract he says you had between you. The onus is on him to prove that of course.

I'll show this to our solicitor to see what she says but your answers to a few of questions first will help.

What is the nature of your business partnership? Is it a limited company or is there a partnership agreement of some sort in writing which details who is responsible for which business expenses and/or can either of you have a loan from the company etc?

Is the vehicle necessary for the business?

If you are both individual T/A do you know whether he's offsetting some of the cost of this vehicle for his tax self-assessment purposes?

Are there any emails where you said you would cover the cost of the payments once you could afford it even if they are not specific on the exact date of when that would be?

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

I received the county court claim on the 23rd

I've looked again at the paperwork you sent me and the Particulars of Claim begin at Point 5 so is there a page missing with Points 1 - 4 on it?

We need to see the complete document.

Plan B x

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

The company is limited of which we are both registered directors, I hold 25% of the shares he holds the remaining 75% ... He has told me several times that he is the majority shareholder which makes me a "junior director" and him the "managing director".

As far as I am aware he is not offsetting this against his tax

I had a loan from the company for a past vehicle, that loan is paid in full and finished.

The car is not directly essential but I do make all the wholesale trips, laundry trips for towels etc ...

I have trawked through my emails and I cannot find anything where I have agreed to make payments.

thanks x

[SXGuy]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

I'd find it unlikely that he isn't claiming hp interest or a wdv at the very least on the accounts. Although what help that is I have no idea. Perhaps plan b has an angle I'm unaware of

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

I'd find it unlikely that he isn't claiming hp interest or a wdv at the very least on the accounts. Although what help that is I have no idea. Perhaps plan b has an angle I'm unaware of

I was thinking if he's been claiming the payments against tax then he's not made an actual loss (because he's paying less tax than he would if he wasn't offsetting it) which is what he's claiming in court.

He can't claim a 'loss' if he hasn't suffered one - unless he plans to pay back HMRC if he wins

I was looking for something to thwart his claim.

Plan B x

[SXGuy]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

At most he's claimed hp interest and 18% of the value each year. That may be something as hp interest was prob front loaded. Unsure if it would create a loss though. Only time that would happen is when it's given back.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

What strikes me as that in the "verbal agreement" repayment was to commence "when Vonny could afford it"
There's no time limit on that, so if Vonny still can't afford it surely he has no basis for the claim? If she'd suddenly won the lottery it would be different.

[SXGuy]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

But what if you suddenly realise you could never pay it? Would that be against the agreement? Op would have to be certain they had every intention of paying at some point.

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

a standard HP agreement then once half the total purchase price has been paid, the car can be returned under 'Voluntary Termination', after which point, the only extra due would be any arrears at the point of termination and possible costs for any damage to the vehicle.

. . . . If this is the case, he could have terminated the account and pursued you for the payments he made

The court would expect him to attempt to mitigate his loss.

If he can hand the car back to prevent any further payments accruing then he ought to do that. Otherwise he's claiming a 'loss' he didn't have to make. Which is precisely what he's attempting to claim (plus previous payments).

Plan B x

[Susiebling365]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

I really find this interesting...( apologies ) Do verbal agreements carry any weight in court?. Mine went before a judge.. stamped etc and it mattered not a jot. I signed the finance and that was it !! The vehicle was registered to my ex as the keeper so that he could tax it etc... but I was still held responsible for the payments, My verbal agreement was to take the vehicle in consideration of financial settlement.... like heck!!!

It was repossessed which surely this guy can do ... take it back... whatever is the matter with him? However, I never considered court proceedings for the time he had the vehicle....maybe I should have.

I wish you all the luck, cos I reckon he don t have a leg to stand on with this.....

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Should I hand the car back to him as soon as possible ?

And would the threatening emails have any bearing on this ... I've had some threatening my job, one stating he was on his way to the accountants to dissolve the business, a few months ago I had one stating that if I did not make payment by noon the following Friday he would stop the payments and have the car removed ... he never followed through with this, and then a week or so later they start again.

[nanna58]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Make sure you keep the emails Vonny xx

[PlanB]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Should I hand the car back to him as soon as possible ?

I wouldn't hand it back just yet. Wait until we've got some feedback from our solicitor.

You offered to make payments (via your father) so it's not your fault your business partner is too pig-headed to accept them.

Plan B x

[Vonny71]

Re: Patrick Brennan ( Fishers ) v Vonny71 - Issued 29 December 2015

Ok, will do xx