Work have pulled a fast one here.....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

say what, he charges for your ass

P1 - well I never

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

say what, he charges for your ass

P1 - well I never

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Sorry meant to come back to you on this; difficulty is if it's not a contractual benefit they can technically withdraw it. That said you should be notified in advance and best practice would be to give notice, I've negotiated on behalf of staff to transfer a company policy to a group private one giving employees to take over monthly premiums etc so they get the benefit of claims history etc.

However, as you were unaware of this cancellation and started treatment then I would expect an employer to honour bills. I am a little confused that they say they are going to rejoin scheme and then costs will be covered. I don't know of any private health cover that would payout on a claim prior to the scheme starting.

You should have an adjustment to your tax code as this is a benefit, have you ever received a p11d for it?

Sounds like you have it sorted now but I would ask for it all in writing and a copy of the policy docs to be sure if I were you.

Jane x

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

OK just mulling this over - how were you informed of your entitlement to private health cover? Does your company have a handbook or is it written in a policy? Although if not included in your contract it could be that the company had not stated clearly enough that this is a discretionary benefit and then the question of custom and practice would be called upon. How long have you had this cover provided for? If it was from day 1 (or after a qualifying period of employment) how long has the company had the scheme in place? Does it cover all employees? Has it been removed from all employees?

Don't worry if you don't want to answer the above as you now have it sorted but it is interesting that they seem to have just stopped paying for it and not told anyone What would have happened if you had undergone some major procedure - I remember when we administered a scheme at one of my employers someone's wife had a hysterectomy and that was a fortune! You should have been provided with policy details, for example levels of cover and excess. And as I said this is most definitely a P11D'able benefit so your tax code should show just how long you have been in the scheme.

Jane x

[SXGuy]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

You should have an adjustment to your tax code as this is a benefit, have you ever received a p11d for it?

Your right in what you say, but techically, if P1 never got a P11D from the employer, it means P1 is drawn in to Self Assessment, and should have declared it.

Trouble is, most employeed people, Dont understand they can be drawn in to SA quite easily, they assume as they are employed it doesnt apply to them.

Truth is, its only getting worse, more and more people under PAYE are being drawn in to SA, and if they fail to file, HMRC will come back with interest and penalties on late filing. Its messed up!

My advice.....(not a professional one) take it, say nothing, and risk being caught.

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

That's interesting SXGuy; back in the day it was drummed into us during payroll training that we should ensure all employees were made aware of any P11D benefits and the implication to their tax codes. I dont get involved anymore with payroll but I thought the employer had an obligation to notify.

Jane x

[SXGuy]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Oh dont get me wrong, employers still have a duty and obligation to make sure they do things correctly, but ultimately the tax payer is responsible for their tax affairs.

Employers can and do get wrapped knucles over mistakes, and in some cases foot the bill for errors caused if procedure is not followed but tax payers can correct mistakes quite easily by submitting a SA form.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

However, as you were unaware of this cancellation and started treatment then I would expect an employer to honour bills. I am a little confused that they say they are going to rejoin scheme and then costs will be covered. I don't know of any private health cover that would payout on a claim prior to the scheme starting.

You should have an adjustment to your tax code as this is a benefit, have you ever received a p11d for it?

Hi Jane,

All staff were automatically joined into the scheme when my company and another (A & B ) were taken over by another company (C)) and we were tuped across. It's a health policy provided to all staff in all of (Cs) other companies and as I am still employed under Cs umbrella and received no notification of any changes, I had no reason to believe that there would be any.

What has actually happened is that I have now joined one of Cs other companies (loads), but the admin has c*cked up and cancelled our "membership" before they could re-set it up again under the new company name. It should have been done in September when I and a few others joined this other subsidiary but they are idiots and cancelled us all off it anyway. I don't believe they had any right to do this as we all still work for C anyway; however they want to dress it up..... and C provides this cover to all employees. It even says so on their website. So I am not re-joining a scheme as such..... it's just splitting hairs between subsidiary companies for budgetting purposes.

All staff who were employed at the time we were tuped across and received a policy document and details but many who've joined since haven't received anything unless they've pushed for it, which is a bit naughty. The cover has been in place since 2010..... so quite a while.

The other interesting point that I found out today is that although mine was cancelled in November, my colleagues in the same subsidiary place had hers cancelled in February..... which makes no sense whatsoever. It's a complete farce..... but HR have assured me that my name will be reinstated until they can re-set it up under the new subsidiary company name and then they will cancel me off it again, which is what they should have done in the first place.

Your right in what you say, but techically, if P1 never got a P11D from the employer, it means P1 is drawn in to Self Assessment, and should have declared it.

Trouble is, most employeed people, Dont understand they can be drawn in to SA quite easily, they assume as they are employed it doesnt apply to them.

Truth is, its only getting worse, more and more people under PAYE are being drawn in to SA, and if they fail to file, HMRC will come back with interest and penalties on late filing. Its messed up!

My advice.....(not a professional one) take it, say nothing, and risk being caught.

I suspect is will be a SA situation but have decided not to worry about it unless it catches up with me....

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Hmmm that's interesting - so you gained this benefit when you were tupe'd across? That implies to me that Health Care is a non-discretionary benefit for your current (new employer), in which case they cannot just remove that benefit.

To be honest it sounds like a nightmare, I would have thought if they provide health cover to all employees across all subsidiaries it would be under one scheme (they would want to get the cost benefit of a larger scheme I would think), so you would not need to be ended in one scheme and started in another as it would be the same "master" scheme. It just doesn't make sense to me, I suspect someone is telling a few porkie pies somewhere.

Again if all employees are given company health cover they cannot just pick and choose who to remove it from - all in or all out with negotiation would be the way they should go. In essence if only some employees are removed from the scheme they are laying themselves open to claims.

Its difficult to be totally objective about what has happened without seeing all the associated paperwork but my gut reaction is they haven't a clue what they are doing

Well done for getting your cover reinstated, they are within their rights not to enrol any new employees in the scheme if they so wish but existing and tupe'd staff should remain until they have negotiated a change of implied terms. (obviously this is only in my opinion).

Jane x

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Hmmm that's interesting - so you gained this benefit when you were tupe'd across? That implies to me that Health Care is a non-discretionary benefit for your current (new employer), in which case they cannot just remove that benefit.

To be honest it sounds like a nightmare, I would have thought if they provide health cover to all employees across all subsidiaries it would be under one scheme (they would want to get the cost benefit of a larger scheme I would think), so you would not need to be ended in one scheme and started in another as it would be the same "master" scheme. It just doesn't make sense to me, I suspect someone is telling a few porkie pies somewhere.

Again if all employees are given company health cover they cannot just pick and choose who to remove it from - all in or all out with negotiation would be the way they should go. In essence if only some employees are removed from the scheme they are laying themselves open to claims.

Its difficult to be totally objective about what has happened without seeing all the associated paperwork but my gut reaction is they haven't a clue what they are doing

Well done for getting your cover reinstated, they are within their rights not to enrol any new employees in the scheme if they so wish but existing and tupe'd staff should remain until they have negotiated a change of implied terms. (obviously this is only in my opinion).

Jane x

You're right; they don't know what they're doing. I was told off the record by my wishy-washy boss that the health policy "enrolment" for the new subsidiary staff was deliberately delayed to save money, so that they could launch the new subsidiary company on time...... but of course, they'll never admit to that in writing.

I'm still pretty frustrated about it and not particularly good at this waiting game when it's things like this, so if I don't get confirmation by Friday, I know I'll be on their case again......

I'm not sure about not having to enrol new staff because it's advertised as a benefit for all staff on the main company website and we are all under their umbrella. When I got this new post in September.... it was after applying for my own job but in the subsidiary (if you get what I mean), with a new contract; the lot...... BUT.... I never resigned from my old post and the health stuff was a non-contractual benefit anyway, so that part of things didn't involve being tuped across.... but however it happened, we are still all under the main company umbrella, it was cancelled 2 months after I took up my position in the subsidiary company and no notice was given whatsoever.

Confused?



:

[tastyjane]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

If they are still advertising this as part of their benefits package then they should honour it for everyone - by including it as part of the "enticement" to work for them they are very much running the risk of it being part of implied terms.

There doesn't seem any doubt they should have negotiated with all staff if this benefit was to be removed.

I hope you get the confirmation on Friday, I will keep my eye open for updates, they sound like a right shower to be honest.

Jane x

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Well..... I have had no such confirmation apart from an email from the healthcare people yesterday saying that they have been in touch with my HR, who said they were dealing with it and that the account would be set up by the end of the week. It is the end of the week though.... and it's not.

Also, I'm not entirely happy with the wording "set up", so have emailed back to say that the account needs to be reinstated; not "set up" and for confirmation that the claim(s) will be paid. I also emailed HR again asking for an update.....

.... and so it goes on.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

**Update**

Account reinstated and settled in full..... along with confirmation from HR that the new account wouldn't be set up until my claims were settled under the old one.

Result!

[IF]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Brilliant P1, well done you

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Brilliant P1, well done you

Thanks IF.....

Not sure my stupid boss knows or even cares ...... Useless!