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  • PRA Group

    Hi there,

    I have a £8.5k debt with PRA from 2005 and requested a CCA last month. They responded stating that the amount was unenforceable as they couldn't find the original credit agreement.

    I responded with a 10% offer to close the account stressing that it was unenforceable and I would close down my DMP.

    PRA have come back today to state that they were not willing to accept my offer of 10% but only 80%. They believe they provided a copy of my credit agreement.

    Advice on next steps? Tell them that I have now removed them from my DMP and will not discuss any further unless they provide sufficient details? And my offer of 10% still stands.

    With nothing currently on my credit file, I don't want this passed to another DMC who might put this account into default. I want to get a mortgage next year so need to be clean!

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: PRA Group

    Originally posted by shaun196809 View Post
    I have a £8.5k debt with PRA from 2005 and requested a CCA last month. They responded stating that the amount was unenforceable as they couldn't find the original credit agreement.

    I responded with a 10% offer to close the account stressing that it was unenforceable and I would close down my DMP.

    PRA have come back today to state that they were not willing to accept my offer of 10% but only 80%. They believe they provided a copy of my credit agreement.
    Can you clarify what documents PRA sent you in response to your CCA Request? They may "believe" they've sent you a copy of your credit agreement but have they?

    Who was the original creditor before PRA was assigned the debt (PRA is a debt purchaser not a Debt Collection Agency)?

    What was the type of account you opened in 2005 such as a credit card, bank account, personal loan?

    Does the name Varde or Experto Credite mean anything to you?

    Sorry for all the questions but I do have a good reason for asking

    See here > http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post590134

    Originally posted by Joanna Connolly View Post
    ‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
    “UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


    So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


    Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


    After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


    Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


    This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


    Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.
    Originally posted by PlanB View Post
    I have full knowledge of this case since I was the Defendant (Plan B is Diana Mayhew).

    I was also the "Client" of Joanna Connolly Solicitors where I currently work. How ironical.

    I have no shame in being taken to court for a debt which arose with MBNA when I was in "financial chaos" at the start of the Credit Crunch which was caused by the banks not me or any of you other debtors out there.

    But I didn't personally owe PRA any money (as agreed by Recorder Bellamy) and that was the reason I decided to fight this case.

    I wasn't only doing it for me, I was doing it for all the other debtors who've been served with claims for a MBNA debt which travelled the same assignment route as mine.

    I was also doing it because the documents produced by the Claimant needed forensic examination. As Jo has said the court found them irredeemably unenforceable. There were two claims for two accounts and both credit agreements failed the test in court.

    It was a win for the consumer not just me.

    PRA have said that they will not be appealing the judgment.

    Di
    Di
    Legal Disclaimer

    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. My Direct Line is 0151 254 6986 Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PRA Group

      Hi Di,

      In response to your questions, please see below:

      Can you clarify what documents PRA sent you in response to your CCA Request? They may "believe" they've sent you a copy of your credit agreement but have they? The first letter I received when I requested an CCA, they provided some documentation ( Default notice, 5 x pages "Credit Card Agreement" with three main headings; Key Financial Info, Other Financial Info and Key Info) and the letter stated that because they didn't have all the information, they deemed the debt unenforceable.

      The letter received yesterday now states I have a copy of the Credit Agreement and they wouldn't accept the 10% offer I proposed.



      Who was the original creditor before PRA was assigned the debt (PRA is a debt purchaser not a Debt Collection Agency? Looks like it was Experto Credite until October 2013 and then PRA took over.

      What was the type of account you opened in 2005 such as a credit card, bank account, personal loan? MBNA so think it was a credit card.

      Does the name Varde or Experto Credite mean anything to you? It does now!! On my letters from PRA, they do state that Varde Experto were the original client

      Thanks Shaun

      Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post
      Can you clarify what documents PRA sent you in response to your CCA Request? They may "believe" they've sent you a copy of your credit agreement but have they?

      Who was the original creditor before PRA was assigned the debt (PRA is a debt purchaser not a Debt Collection Agency)?

      What was the type of account you opened in 2005 such as a credit card, bank account, personal loan?

      Does the name Varde or Experto Credite mean anything to you?

      Sorry for all the questions but I do have a good reason for asking

      See here > http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post590134





      Di

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Di,

        I have received a letter this morning asking I contact PRA Group as they believe the information has been sent. They have also re-sent the same documentation as I mentioned above.

        Any thoughts?

        Thanks Shaun

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shaun196809 View Post
          Hi Di,

          I have received a letter this morning asking I contact PRA Group as they believe the information has been sent. They have also re-sent the same documentation as I mentioned above.

          I'm sorry I missed this post (you can always send me a PM if I don't reply to your question on a thread).

          Have you heard any more from PRA?

          If so what have they said?

          Di
          Legal Disclaimer

          I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. My Direct Line is 0151 254 6986 Our initial advice is always free.

          Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi I wonder If I could have some advice please. PRA Group are chasing for a debt for MBNA. I wrote to PRA asking for information Sections 77-79 CC Act 1974 and got the following response " I Refer to your request for copy documentation regarding the above account. Please find enclosed documentation received to date (nothing was sent); we are awaiting further documents in order to complete your request. (This letter is dated Feb this year). They go on to say we currently deemed this debt as unenforceable which means we are not able to take court or further enforcement action against you to recover the outstanding balance.... They go on to say it is not written off but they legally are entitled to keep contacting me, pass details on to a third party collection agency, and continue to report on my credit file. They have now put a default on my account dated June last year. I dont know when the debt was sold but I was only contacted by them in Nov. Can they put a default on for an unenforceable debt? I want to get this removed from my credit file so want to know the best way to go, should i offer a token payment?

            Many Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KB11 View Post
              Hi I wonder If I could have some advice please. PRA Group are chasing for a debt for MBNA. I wrote to PRA asking for information Sections 77-79 CC Act 1974 and got the following response " I Refer to your request for copy documentation regarding the above account. Please find enclosed documentation received to date (nothing was sent); we are awaiting further documents in order to complete your request. (This letter is dated Feb this year). They go on to say we currently deemed this debt as unenforceable which means we are not able to take court or further enforcement action against you to recover the outstanding balance.... They go on to say it is not written off but they legally are entitled to keep contacting me, pass details on to a third party collection agency, and continue to report on my credit file. They have now put a default on my account dated June last year. I dont know when the debt was sold but I was only contacted by them in Nov. Can they put a default on for an unenforceable debt? I want to get this removed from my credit file so want to know the best way to go, should i offer a token payment?

              I've replied on your thread here > https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...forceable-debt


              Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post

              Hello

              First of all if an account has defaulted then the creditor may register the default with the Credit reference Agencies, although the date must be accurate. Is it possible that MBNA defaulted you in June 2018 then assigned/sold the debt to PRA in November 2018?

              If a debt owner cannot comply with a s 77-78 CCA Request then they cannot enforce the debt in court. This doesn't mean the debt has been extinguished. It still exists but they can't enforce it in court. It's then up to you to decide whether you wish to continue to pay towards the debt or not.

              This situation continues until or unless the debt owner does comply with your request which can be up to a year later, sometimes even longer. During that time the debt is in limbo legally speaking. This doesn't mean that the debt owner should remove the default from your CRA file. It will be removed automatically six years after it was put on - in fact the whole account entry vanishes at that point.

              Can you add a little more information such as how much is the outstanding balance, when (what year) did you open the account, when did you last pay anything towards the account, and was it assigned direct from MBNA or was it assigned to another debt purchaser before that such as Aktiv Kapital?
              Di
              Legal Disclaimer

              I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. My Direct Line is 0151 254 6986 Our initial advice is always free.

              Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

              Comment

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