National Hunter and Cfas issue

[wilfred]

Before i get into the full story can anybody clear up three points for me please? I have read some conflicting information about how long an NH marker stays active. I thought it was six years but Im sure I read somewhere on here that it was rolling 13 months assuming no other issues were flagged to cause it to continue?

Also am I correct in thinking there are 2 levels of Cfas and just because no info is shown on the credit files, it doesn't automatically mean that there is no info recorded?

Both times it was an instant auto decline. Does that mean it was probably not due to NH as again , I am led to believe that the system does not operate instantly?

If someone who knows could clarify how these systems work that would be a good start and help me get my head round the problem better!

I have done a SAR to NH and appear have a "refer" marker but have no obvious cfas info on the credit reports but have been declined twice in the last six months for a further advance on my long 30yr established mortgage with a 20% LTV and perfect payment history

[wilfred]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Anybody care to comment please?? Was hoping to get my head a bit more clear about this before i see mortgage man again next week!!

[Pixie]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

I'm sorry wilfred, you probably know as much about N Hunter and cifas as I do.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

It's slightly different - so as times change, so do processes.

N. Hunter - data stays for between 6 months to 6 years (depending on the type of application made) but this is generally factual. As in N Hunter records application data entered by the applicant and picks up on major discrepancies within the submitted data from previous applications made.

CIFAS - data stays for between 1 to 6 years as well. The lender adds the CIFAS entry if they suspect fraud or false applications. So a category 1-4 is usually held for 12 months UNLESS the lender believes the fraud is continuing in which case they can extend it for a month / 12 months (hence the 13 month rolling element you've read about). However if it's a category 5-8 (usually cat 6) then the data usually lasts 6 years. The new category for cat 6 is called "misuse of facility" -> https://www.cifas.org.uk/what_are_th...pes_cifas_uses

The above said, you can still be listed for 6 years as category 1-4 (application fraud)!

Essentially, if a bank has closed your account due to first party fraud (cat 6) then the data remains for 6 years unless you successfully argue you weren't at fault / involve the police etc.

[wilfred]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Hi Never in Doubt, thanks for chipping in. I was typing all this below so didnt see your post!!......

Having had a bit more time yesterday and this morning I have found and read through a sticky post here by Never in Doubt

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...cies-amp-CIFAS

which does clarify a few things especially about Cifas.
Probably like a lot of people I had assumed incorrectly that if no data was showing on the CRA then there would be no data.
Apparantly wrong!!
But what is the point of having a Cifas section on a credit report and then still hiding the info??

I have SAR'd Cifas this morning and will await to see what comes back.

I think I may have created a problem with an address history with a credit card provider which is behind all this.

I have found an complex old post on another forum which to some degree mirrors my equally complex situation. Within that is a reply from NH to the original poster which says:

Dear MrXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated 17th June 2013

For your information, 'inconsistency' status data can remain on our system for 3 years and 'refer' status data can remain for 6 years. Any new applications submitted to an organisation that uses National Hunter may match against these existing applications, which would be a reason for the organisation to investigate or look at the data provided by you in more detail.

The presence of an 'inconsistency' or 'refer' status is not reason enough for an automatic decline decision but an indication that the data needs further investigation.


Yours sincerely

So if I got an auto decline does that imply it was not because of NH data? And therefore possibly from hidden Cifas data?

The basis of my problem is this:

Despite long negotiations, and concurrent with a period of depression when I didnt handle things particularly well, a repossession attempt was made by my building society caused by me failing to repay the capital in time on a failed endowment mortgage. I successfully defended this in court, and have since settled the outstanding balance leaving a relatively small amount from a previous further advance being paid off on a repayment basis. The overall mortgage payment history is unblemished and there have never been any arrears. However as a result of this I have large unsecured expensive CC debts which are now crippling me financially and which I was hoping to consolidate into a remortgage which now looks like it might be difficult. This is beginning to take over my life and I need to get it gripped before I drown in it all.

I accept that this is a problem of my own making and I should have dealt with it at source before it all went to court, but I also feel I was treated unfairly by the building society. Obviously I could sell the house but that would be an absolute last resort and I would feel like I have given in to them.

Was hoping to get some constructive help please.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

N Hunter is NOT. CRA nor is it an FPA- it literally records the data YOU entered & if there's inconsistencies, they can create a refer marker to the provider of that credit application only.

A refer status wont refer everything, it just warns the lender to take measures as your application differs substantially from your previous application. To avoid refer markers, tell the truth or appeal the decline from that specific application with evidence.

N Hunter is not like a CRA or CIFAS. The results don't get shared with other lenders.

Why not not try telling us exactly what's wrong so we aren't pissing in the wind with random permutations of what ifs.

[wilfred]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Whats wrong is that basically my outgoings substantially exceed my income and mainly because i am getting so wound up and stressed about this I dont really know where to start. Its all a bit embarrassing. I have been coping up to now with a bit of savings but it wont be possible forever. I spend at least two hours every day juggling payments and robbing peter to pay paul. At the moment I havnt missed any payments yet so there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel but that wont go on for ever. I had thought I would be able to deal with it myself but now not convinced. I had gambled on doing a remortgage just after christmas. I didnt realise until this morning I had to SAR Cifas to get any adverse information. I hope when the SAR comes back from things may be a bit clearer and I can start to make a plan. I may just be over committed, or there may be something more sinister going on in the background. I just dont know!

In the "Reasons" box on the The NH report with "refer" from the credit card company, it says "Credit - Non-Residential - Undisc Addr + Adverse"

[cymruambyth]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Hi, I don't know anything about Hunter etc, however your problem appears to stem from your outgoings exceeding your income. What about reading through the unenforceabilty diaries and see how others have coped in a similar situation? You are making the problem worse by juggling and trying to survive. I was in your situation 15 years ago, but through managing and fighting I have retaken control of my finances ( our outgoings without living were double our income). Initially I worked through things on my own and made many errors; when AAD was started I followed the guidance here. http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/f...dit-Agreements

You will not get judgement on this site, just guidance, suggestions and an impartial sounding board.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Ok first things first - CIFAS is not N Hunter. So regardless of whether there's a Refer status, that doesn't mean a CIFAS entry will be loaded - that's dependent on the lender and whether they suspect an error or fraud.

The status from N Hunter suggests you've applied and extended your address to possibly hide adverse data at a previous address. Example, you've lived at address for 2 years 8 months but when you applied for the credit you put 3 years. Or that you've hidden something to hide something - now N Hunter cannot see your credit file so don't know - it's a generic status code. Therefore, if you know for a fact the details on your application was correct then send a complaint to the lender and request removal of N Hunter entry but a solitary Refer won't be a block to credit, other applications you make MAY be referred (to underwriting) whilst they request details from the original lender (the lender who used N Hunter which led to the Refer marker).

Essentially I'd not overly worry at this stage - see what CIFAS send back first as you may not have anything on there in which case this Refer status will vanish in a year.

Can you clarify, do you have ANY adverse data on your credit file, even a missed payment? How long have you been at your address?

Your outgoings wont necessarily have any effect, your income & salary however will. So if you've been on £10k per annum for say 15 years and that rises annually whatever to say £18k now; if you applied for credit and suddenly said you'd been in a different job for a different period of time than your last application, with a material difference, you'd get a Refer marker.

So (hypothetically) if on your last application (2 years ago) you said you earned £18k & were employed for 15 years then you applied recently and said you worked at a different place but been there 6 years and earn £50k - they'd see that as fraud as it's unlikely and the dates don't add up for it to be a simple typo. It's clearly fraud and several material differences so a marker would be added most likely. If however you got it wrong by a year or something daft, it wouldn't go against you as "shit happens" (innocently)!

Hope this all makes sense. See what CIFAS say before stressing too much.

[wilfred]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Thanks both, I will read up about unenforcability and also DMPs and will wait for the Cifas results before I go much further, but this has been a wake up call and I do need to get it sorted one way or another. Just making a start to address the issues has been helpful.

NiD, would you mind if I sent you a PM? I dont mind dropping back into the forum later but the whole thing is complicated (to me at least but maybe not to others) and I'm not sure I'm brave enough to post everything on a public forum yet, even here!!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Hiya - yea send me an email - easier to explain things, then at least it remains private between us and isn't public....

webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

[wilfred]

Re: National Hunter and Cfas issue

Cheers.

I am going to take a bit of time to respond here, it will help me out to write it all down properly. Watch this space, I advise you to have a coffee/wine/beer/whisky available when you receive my email!!!