Not being paid SSP by employer

[LooLoo]

I am asking this for a friend of mine - who right now is just a little bit stressed.

About 3 weeks ago - her husband who is a plumber injured his back at work - completely - could hardly move in lots of pain.......

luckily we have private medical cover here at work and it covers her family so she got him in to see a specialist and had an MRI and it was a disc prolapse.

On Friday he had an operation on his back.

Obv due to the nature of his job - he really can't work - so he kept his employers informed of what was going on - they were away on holiday at the time - but there was a lady covering the office. As it is a small company - whilst he was off the other employee kept calling him and asking his advice on certain jobs and on one or two occasions he went to job sites with the guy to give him directions on how things should be done.

The Owners have now returned from holiday and have told him they are not paying him for his sickness.

I have checked on the government website and they have had a chat (all being not that helpful) with ACAS - and it seems that your employer should pay you (if you do not have a company sick pay scheme in place) the SSP.

ACAS said to her yeah they should pay him and if not you have to type a letter to the Customs and Revenue and say it is in dispute... but they did not tell her what she exactly has to put and where she should send it.....

Also he does not have a signed contract - and today the boss came round to pick up his work van and gave them some copy of an unsigned contract - when he asked the woman for the signed copy (he knows there is not one) she said she will dig it out....

Even in this contract there is a paragraph highlighed which says

There is no special provision with regard to payment during sickness. SSP arrangements apply, and the Directors according to individual circumstances will consider any additional entitlement. Medical Certificates must be submitted to the office, i.e. "self-certificate" for absence of 3-6 days Doctors' Certificates, thereafter

So my understanding of that is they pay SSP?

They are just at a bit of a loss of what to do next.

His family are on at him to go to a "No Win No Fee" lawyer and claim for the injury......

Any one got any ideas or had any experience with something like this??

[Pixie]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

I'm not too sure but I thought that all employees (except agency workers like me) were entitled to SSP?

Was he perhaps employed on a self-employed basis (ie as a sub-contractor) though from the contract he's just been given it wouldn't appear so.

I assume he's sent in a sick note?

[LooLoo]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

I know that is what i thought too and it does say that on the government website - and Acas confirmed it

So at a bit of a loss as the bosses wife is saying NO we are not paying you end of.

He is employed by them on a full time basis - not a contactor....... PAYE

Yes he has send in his certificates........

[LooLoo]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

ok yeah i saw that
so I will give him that form to fill in and if they then do not want to pay him they have to provide him with an SSP1 form - I can also see a note there with a number to call the Revenue if you have a dispute

Cool let me pass them on to him

Thanks xx

[Pixie]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

I don't see why his employers aren't paying him SSP then

Has he looked at direct.gov.uk for information?

Has he had SSP for another illness recently...that's the only reason I can think of as to why they won't pay him.

I was just looking up the direct.gov stuff...I see FP has beaten me to it!

[LooLoo]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

Nope he is hardly ever off sick - and of course something like this he can't physically work - and the fact he was on the phone and did go to a job site with the other guy to advise him what to do - when he can hardly walk.

I have no idea why they are not paying him.... esp as in threory they don't even pay him do they - they pay him and claim it back.......

I have told him to fill in the form and then my friend will take it round to her and I have told her to tell her that they have looked on the gorvernment website and in accordance with that and the so called contrac they should be paying SSP an if not they must provide the form.........

its a joke - they are a small company and maybe it is something they have never had to deal with before?

[LooLoo]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

Yep I am hoping that is the case...

I'll let you know how it goes!

thanks for your time ladies xx

[SXGuy]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

Ok people who have seen me post, know that i process PAYE for various companies.

Firstly your friend needs to find out if a) Tax and NI is being stopped from his pay and if so, is it being paied to HMRC.

Ring up the paye tax office and ask if his NI Contributions are paid and up to date.

The reason i say this is quite simple.

SSP does NOT cost the employer anything, it is paid by the employer, but it also reduces the amount of tax and ni they pay to HMRC.

Therefore i can only assume that refusal to pay means he is not legally registered as an employer.

So if no tax and ni is being stopped, and your friend knew this from the start, then he has no right to argue about SSP because hes comitting and offense just as much as his boss.

However, if it is being stopped, then he needs to find out if a) its being paid to HMRC and why his boss feels the need to refuse something that costs him NOTHING to pay.

If its being stopped, and isnt being paid, and he is unaware that this is the case, then he can get his boss into serious trouble.

[5corpio]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

not 100% sure, BUT if the company DOESN'T give a contract within 4 weeks, then the employer is also liable for 'A FINE' ie; they can be also find (in the interest of the 'small' company, it may be worth while to file ssp or company sick pay, otherwise they might get a bigger Bill from ACAS

[SXGuy]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

personally, before this mate does anything, he really should find out if hes NI is being paid and up to date.

Or if tax and NI isnt being stopped from his wage and whether he agreed to be paid "Cash in hand" from the start.

He really doesnt want to do anything like submitting forms until this mate is certain about a few things first.

This could open up a massive can of worms for him if hes not careful.

All he needs to do is ring the tax office and say, can i please check when you last received an N.I payment towards my account.

If they say something silly like 1999 then he will know, that his employer isnt declaring him as employed, and therefore is the reason why SSP isnt being paid.

Then he needs to remember, did he agree to cash in hand or did he honestly think he was employed properly.

If he agreed to cash in hand, do nothing, he will be liable for tax and ni and prob quite a hefty fine.

If he didnt agree, then is tax and ni being stopped?

If no, and he earns above the threshold (£7475 last year, £8105 this year) then hes not been properly registered, and his employer is commiting an offense.

If yes, and its not being paid, his employer is still commiting an offense, but also being rather cheeky, if you agree to pay cash in hand (which is illegal) then you cant stop ni and tax as well, you cant have it both ways.

[LooLoo]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

Hi SX guy

Yes I will get them to check - as far as we are aware he is paid PAYE so assume all up to date but I will get him to check

he gets paid on either Friday or Monday - so they are going to check what they have paid him for the last month.

She changed her attitude from I am not paying you to - I need to sort it out.

I just couldn't get my head round it as I said to my friend it doesn't acutally cost them anything - so I am kinda hoping that they have not had this situation before and just need to check with their accountant to clarify the situation.

so I will post again after he has got paid - I am really hoping they will see what they need to pay and it will be sorted.....

As far as I am aware they are above board and the are paying him correctly with NI and Tax - but i will check - I assume if he has been reciving notifications from the tax office about coding etc it will all be above board??

Thanks so much everyone for you imput - as I think my friends husband is getting very stressed which is all you really need when you are trying to recover eh!

[SXGuy]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

Hi LooLoo yeah if hes had tax coding notices then hes registered as employed by them so dont worry about checking ni contributions, as that has cleared it up from what you said.

Plus tax office would only know as far as 5th april, as they dont know what ni is allocated where till the end of the tax year.

SSP is currently £78.78 per week. there is 3 waiting days, and payment starts from the 4th day.

If he has been continuously off work sick, then it will be easy enough to calculate.

Sounds as though they will need to back date it to when he first came off sick, so make sure he is paid exactly everything hes entitled to.

General rule of thumb is, if he worked a 5 day week, and his first sick day was a monday, then he would be paid for 2 days the first week (£78.78 / 5 * 2) and £78.78 per week after that. Hope that helps.

Once its been sorted and paid, ask him to let you know the dates they started payment from and how many days and total SSP paid and i will confirm if it is correct or not, so tell him not to worry.

[LooLoo]

Re: Not being paid SSP by employer

Thanks SX - really appreciate this )