P800 Tax Calculation help

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

ok, forget for a moment what the employer done on the year end submission of a P14.

The fact is, she gave him a P45, he filled out a P46 and submitted the information, this has been confirmed by HMRC in their letter.

So, the employer is either lying, or HMRC are mistaken. Sounds to me like one of them are trying to accuse the other.

But, we can use HMRC's argument against them to recover the tax from the employer, let the employer argue it with HMRC

If the employer did not request your friend sign a P46 then the employer is responsible for the loss in tax. Its as simple as that.

HMRC can decide the employer is not at fault if their believe he made a "genuine Error or mistake" so we need to drum it home to HMRC that this wasnt possible.

If i remember rightly, she has an email from her employer stating the date the P45 was submitted, you now have evidence from HMRC a P46 was submitted instead.

She needs to tell HMRC, i gave my employer a P45, ive now discovered from your letter, he submitted a P46, for which i was never asked to complete nor sign.

Because a P46 was submitted instead of my P45 part 3, the employer is liable for the underpayment of tax.

Thanks.

Yes she emailed from her mum's and they confirmed they did sent it electronically, infact she did send the copy of email to me......

Yes all submissions to HMRC (P45's) are done electronically of receiving the copy.

Should you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Right, she told me she now emailed from her mum's puter, and received an automated message that they will be at office 24th (Monday) so tomorrow then, she will let me know from there when she hears.

I have also said about what you have said, so she said as soon as she has the date the works said they sent off P45 she will get on to it, and she did also say she cannot recall on signing anything with the agency, eg, the P46.
Will ask her again to join up on this site, once she has her own puter up and running again.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Did briefly speak to her, she not heard anything today, so in the new year now i expect.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

"J" forwarded me the email she received today, not a lot really but just to say they passed on to payroll and will contact when they hear.....


"Hope you had a good Christmas, I have sent this to our payroll department, I will forward the response on as soon as I have it"

Thanks

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

On her letter, the questions asked are:

What information was provided?
When was it sent to us?
Who sent it?

With that then surely they should still hold the details on the database (payroll)?
And I assume they will go by the answers given by the employer to "J" to decide on the decision?

I also assume these would be the questions they would ask when they contact the employer themselves??

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Not sure what HMRC will ask the employer, never had this issue myself.

But her employer should know, when it was sent in, what was sent, and who it was sent in by.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Not sure what HMRC will ask the employer, never had this issue myself.

But her employer should know, when it was sent in, what was sent, and who it was sent in by.

Thank you.

I told her if they say they will deal with it directly to HM customs, to say no because she requires the information to send herself and to sign the form.

She is hoping the payroll will email her and not do it by phone, so she can print and send the copy to attach as well as adding it in the form.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Another thought has come to me.

Shouldnt the HM customs PAYE as you EARN had the details though for them to have come across this underpayment? for eg, income details?
As her letter says they have no record of the information, where did this information come from they used?

Asking out of curiosity really, don't know how they work lol.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Because according to HMRC her employer submitted a P46.

The P46 gives 3 boxes to chose from, depending on the answer depends on how the employee is taxed.

They ticked the box that ment she would be taxed at emergancy month 1 week 1, so she was given the same monthly tax allowance each month instead of cumlative.

So from that, HMRC can work out her total income, less tax allowance, then 20% as tax, minus tax stopped, the difference is the underpayment.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Because according to HMRC her employer submitted a P46.

The P46 gives 3 boxes to chose from, depending on the answer depends on how the employee is taxed.

They ticked the box that ment she would be taxed at emergancy month 1 week 1, so she was given the same monthly tax allowance each month instead of cumlative.

So from that, HMRC can work out her total income, less tax allowance, then 20% as tax, minus tax stopped, the difference is the underpayment.

Oh right, I see. We learn something new everyday lol. Cheers for that

It does look like they (employer) did just do/send the P46 and not send the P45 like they said they did originally in my opinion, yet recently confirming they did not add on the previous income.
She did say, being naive that she did think it was all in order, so was surprised when she did receive the letter, and with that now she did say she certainly will learn from this and keep a closer eye on her taxes etc.

See what they come up with, and if this is the case, I think maybe she should then ask on why they told her by email that they did send the P45 as it was done electronically.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Personally, i think her time would be better spent convincing HMRC that her employer made the mistake and caused the underpayment, so they then go after them for it and not her, i wouldnt worry to much about arguing it with the employer at the moment.

HMRC will likely ask her employer for a copy of the P46, which will omit her signature, because we know she didnt sign it.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Personally, i think her time would be better spent convincing HMRC that her employer made the mistake and caused the underpayment, so they then go after them for it and not her, i wouldnt worry to much about arguing it with the employer at the moment.

HMRC will likely ask her employer for a copy of the P46, which will omit her signature, because we know she didnt sign it.

Yes I think that will be a better idea too.
She did say she honestly don't remember completing/signing an online form (P46).
I note her letter states they received the P46 of which she supposedly had signed, where employer suggests she sign and opt for section B.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

So it looks up to now this is what "J" will be looking at........(Employer failing to follow P45 procedure)??


PAYE95011 - Reconcile individual: HMRC delay: ESC A19: employer error

When reviewing an ESC A19 claim, if you discover that the underpaid tax has occurred because of an employer error and not because of HMRC failure to make proper and timely use of information, then the employer should be pursued for payment of the tax.
Under-deductions caused by employer error commonly occur for the following reasons

• Using an incorrect tax code
• Failure to follow the P45 / P46 procedure
• Incorrect deduction due to incorrect use of tax tables
• Incorrectly considering an individuals’ tax status
• Payment of gross pay without operating a code

For cases where tax is underpaid because of an employer error, refer to the Customer Operations Guidance Gateway for the employer error SPD

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Yeah that would be it, so she needs to say to HMRC the employer is due to pay the underpayment under ESC A19 for submitting a P46 without my knowledge or signature, instead of following the information on my P45, which lead to me being taxed using a month 1 emergancy basis thus causing an underpayment.

As far as i was aware, the employer had submitted my P45 details and i was being taxed correctly, please find attached printed copy of an email where my employer has confirmed a P45 was submitted online, however according to your records this is not the case.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Yeah that would be it, so she needs to say to HMRC the employer is due to pay the underpayment under ESC A19 for submitting a P46 without my knowledge or signature, instead of following the information on my P45, which lead to me being taxed using a month 1 emergancy basis thus causing an underpayment.

As far as i was aware, the employer had submitted my P45 details and i was being taxed correctly, please find attached printed copy of an email where my employer has confirmed a P45 was submitted online, however according to your records this is not the case.

I rang her to tell her just to continue writing to HM, should she use that A19 form or put it into a letter do you think?

Told her what you said to write, and she says a big thank you again.