EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

[cymruambyth]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

I think people in Britain would accept the EU a lot more if the British government treated the laws imposed by the EU the same way that it's greatest proponents do - ignore the parts that we don't like instead of slavishly accepting everything.

[debtguy]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

Spot-on, cymruambyth! The EU is basically getting what is coming to it (I'm assuming Brexit is a foregone conclusion because I think it is). But it is sad that they have basically brought it about by being such utter arseholes, because the theory (as opposed to the reality) is a very good thing, and from a central European perspective the power vacuum that is going to follow if (when) the EU implodes is very scary - Putin is already wooing countries such as Turkey, Poland, Hungary, etc., and it looks as if a Russocentric power bloc could be in the process of being re-formed, but without anything in the west to offset it.

[debtguy]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

BUT between 2002 and 2004 I used to work for the (now-defunct) WDA (Welsh Development Agency) - did you know that Wales is a net recipient of EU funds (Objective 1 status)? http://straightstatistics.fullfact.o...y-poor-romania

The project I was working on (aimed, unsuccessfully, at reflating the Welsh economy) was entirely funded by the EU. At the end of it I came to the conclusions both that Wales was scandalously ignored by the rest of the UK, and that working on an EU-funded project was like finding money in the street.

As I said, the project was a waste of EU taxpayers' money, and at the end, having driven in and out of Wales 3 or 4 times a week for 3 years, I came to the conclusion that the best thing for the Welsh economy would be to get rid of all the speed cameras and build some new roads.

No chance of that though. Cardiff is the only European capital besides I have visited besides Bratislava that has a 2- (as opposed to 3-) lane motorway leading to it.

As the rest of the UK is not given to shoving large amounts of cash Wales's way, I have a horrible feeling that Wales in the UK but out of the EU is going to be seriously in the smelly.

They would certainly lose any EU Objective 1 funds, and I don't see PM Boris doing much to counteract that, as he and his friends seem to think that Slough is the Wild West...

[mike'y]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

I want us to leave the EU. This will be the only chance we ever get to have our say. I vaguely recall when we entered the common market and that vote was fudged. Something to do with the irish vote. Ever since then we've been continually giving up our rights and country etc to a bunch of fat cats in the EU. Sure if we leave there will be some people who lose out but that will be short term. If we leave they're not going to stop trading with us or sharing security intelligence. As for defence, it's NATO that protects us not the EU with it's 'one nation one rule' ideology.

Historically each state was forged by many wars and cultural events. To give it all up so cheaply to become european would be a a sad event imo.

[debtguy]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

It's not really defence I'm talking about, in the sense of bombs and missiles - it's political orientation. We have of course got NATO, but if Putin and his friends persuade the eastern states to leave it, we have also got a big problem on our hands.

[debtguy]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

I suppose my biggest problem is that I am an incurable cynic. In the same way that Groucho Marx wouldn't become a member of any club that would accept him as a member, I would regard anyone who wanted to rule as being unfit to do so (all power corrupts).

There is absolutely no doubt that the EU is run by a bunch of power-crazed crooks who are bent on feathering their own nests, building up a power base and grabbing as much taxpayers' money for themselves as they possibly can.

Trouble is, I'd apply that definition to the UK government as well, and in fact just about all others. It's basically a choice between home-grown power-crazed crooks and power-crazed crooks from a bit further away.

Hobson's Choice, really...

[cymruambyth]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

I suppose my biggest problem is that I am an incurable cynic. In the same way that Groucho Marx wouldn't become a member of any club that would accept him as a member, I would regard anyone who wanted to rule as being unfit to do so (all power corrupts).

There is absolutely no doubt that the EU is run by a bunch of power-crazed crooks who are bent on feathering their own nests, building up a power base and grabbing as much taxpayers' money for themselves as they possibly can.

Trouble is, I'd apply that definition to the UK government as well, and in fact just about all others. It's basically a choice between home-grown power-crazed crooks and power-crazed crooks from a bit further away.

Hobson's Choice, really...

Are you talking about the EU or FIFA?

[Roger]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

Europe is about Sovereignty.
Europe is a Republic with a President. By treating it as one country members can work or travel anywhere in Europe.
The trouble is the Countries which make up Europe have different economic living standards. We have a very distinct Crown, Parliament etc.
The last time that Parliament clashed with the Crown/President there was a Civil War.
Here is the issue Europe is Superior to Parliament!
A Government answerable to Europe and Not Parliament.
Its a Constitutional Crisis that has been simmering for years.
Myself? Don't know!

[helmsman]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

lot of imports would have tariffs?

we voted in at the beginning - that is it, if the ordinary person was around in the 40/50/60s would know what it was like when out of the EU , we lived in an old boring empire going no where === FACT! and broke all the time.

Oh dear, I must be showing my age 50s 60s 70s boring, I don't think so.

[debtguy]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

Are you talking about the EU or FIFA?

Probably very much the same thing...

[debtguy]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

Oh dear, I must be showing my age 50s 60s 70s boring, I don't think so.

Agreed! In no particular order, Falklands, Thatcher, miners' strike, recessions, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam war, Cuban Missile Crisis, CND, Greenham, Watergate, Kennedys' assassination (both brothers), Berlin Wall, Stasi, fall of the Berlin Wall, MLK's assassination, etc., etc., etc. - the list goes on. It's a walk in the park now compared with then!

[Phoenix]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

Well, I was at school in the 50s and at uni in the (early 60s). And boredom wasn't on my agenda!

I do remember all those events - and many more. My generation was paranoid about the "bomb" and banning it - I can remember going on a CND march in my duffle coat!

My instinct is that, as a country, we would be better "in" than "out" (the lesser of two evils?) but I am no fan of Cameron and totally agree about the bit about politicians being power-crazed. Think that may be why they go into it, rather than get "proper jobs".

Not sure about Boris's leadership skills, either - think it might end up being a "hair competition" between Boris and Trump, and I would not like to predict the winner there!

[nanna58]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

I remember the days when our government made laws....yes it really did happen!!! No one asked some unbeknown bloke if it was OK, that is one thing that makes my blood boil.Never mind the millions that goes to that bloke and his cronies.Oh yes and the countries that want the benifits paid from here to there boosting their economies.

[Pixie]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

I know nanna. I don't see why we should pay child benefit for children who aren't even in this country. The money isn't spent here so isn't helping our economy.

[Roger]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron announces date of vote

The vote here is not about being in Europe of not. The vote if yes turns Parliament into a Regional assemble.
The government will be subservient to whomever runs Europe. It would be a mistake to think that a Yes vote leaves things as they are now. The vote is to become a Republic.
But a No vote leaves us with Parliamentry Rule.
I just wish they were HONEST!