Pip's UE Diary

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 7
Sainsbury's
Start date: June 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Feb 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request sent to Sainsbury's Bank (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN CCA received-- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to Sainsbury's
FEB Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott Payment not received // Failure to give attention to this will result in further action
FEB Letter from Sainsbury's We have complied with s.78 // I disagree that the application is unreadable // Agreement is and will remain enforceable // Full balance is due and in arrears
MAR Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott Payment in arrears // Must pay immediately // Failure will result in your plan being cancelled and further action to recover debt. This may include door-to-door recovery agent to call at your address; court action to seek a judgment -- if successful we could seek an order allowing us to collect money direct from your employer or if you are a homeowner applying to court for a charging order on your property. Call today // payment can be made by CREDIT CARD
MAR Sent Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action
MAR Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott DO NOT IGNORE // Urgently trying to contact you // you do not appear to have responded to our requests for payment or provided acceptable repayment proposals // Call "helpline" below to speak to our agents // We urge you to sort this issue out immediately to prevent us taking further action. This may include doorstep collectors/court action/charging order.
MAR Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION IS REQUIRED // [snipped, see #7].
MAR Replied sending copies of Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action previously sent to them which they have so far ignored
APR Letter from Sainsbury's: [Although I wrote to BO&S, not them; letter with Leeds address at top and not a proper letterhead, and with a 2nd class frank on envelope bearing "Birmingham"] Unfortunately, we've issued our final response. // Means we've nothing further to add // we really can't keep writing to you about the same issue. However, you have my assurance that we'll add any further letters you send us to our file. Turning to your allegations of harassment [...] the bank will give no undertaking not to contact your client to ask for payment, particularly as the alleged "dispute" is unfounded. [snipped, see #7].
MAY Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT ACTION -- SAINSBURY'S BANK PLC versus PIP. Formal notice is hereby given that our client has instructed us to commence court proceedings against you without delay. Papers are now being prepared for commencement of action through your local court to seek a judgment against you. If you are a homeowner and do not pay [...] we may apply for charging order on your property. YOU MUST MAKE PAYMENT NOW TO STOP ACTION BEING TAKEN. Call today/talk to Helpline staff/ make payment.
MAY Sent Threat to Commence Litigation letter to B, O & S
JUN Letter from Sainsbury's Notice that they've "transferred" the debt to Moorcroft [although it's got a Stockport frank on the letter -- it's like anybody could knock these things up and send them out ...]
JUN Letter from Moorcroft: Been instructed by Sainsbury's // Legal requirement to send notice of intended litigation before legal proceedings are issued // Letter fulfils this even if not read by you // To prevent our recommending to our client that solicitors commence legal proceedings ... essential to settle debt without delay. If an agreement is not reached in [four days' time(!)], a claim may be issued by solicitors instructed to act on behalf of our client without further notice. Etc. Etc.
JUN Sent Threat to Commence Litigation letter to Moorcroft
JUN Letter from Moorcroft: Requesting £1 CCA request fee
JUN Sent letter to Moorcroft saying that I sent a CCA request letter to Sains. on such-and-such date
JUL Letter from Moorcroft: Please send proof that you requested CCA and that the £1.00 was paid.
JUL Letter from Midas Credit Services: LITIGATION WARNING -- We are part of Moorcroft Group and are aware that you have failed to reach a repayment agreement with Moorcroft concerning above a/c. We are now reviewing the a/c prior to the possible recommending of legal action by external solicitors acting on behalf of our clients. To prevent possible further action you must contact Moorcroft at this address. Failure to contact Moorcroft by [couple of days ago] may result in the issue of legal proceedings without further notice.
JUL Sent Threat to Commence Litigation letter to Moorcroft
JUL Sent Threat to Commence Litigation letter to Midas
JUL Letter from Moorcroft: Our records show you have not made any payment to us // account has now been passed to our Home Collections Division for action. May involve local rep calling at your home address // If you prefer to make repayment arrangement, you must TELEPHONE us no later than [sometime later this week]. If no satisfactory arrangement is made with us or our local rep, you may leave us with lo alternative but to recommend client to commence legal/solicitors proceedings without further notice
JUL Sent Threat to Commence Litigation letter to Moorcroft (again)
JUL Letter from Moorcroft: Thank you for your letter requesting a copy of the credit agreement [I didn't send them one requesting this; this is how they've interpreted the threat to commence lit. letter.] Under the CCA 1974 you must provide £1 fee. Consequently if you submit the prescribed payment we will gladly process your request.
JUL Letter from Moorcroft: Our records show that you have failed to pay the £1.00 fee, therefore we have been unable to assist you in your request. Please forward the £1 fee payable to the above client etc.
AUG Letter from Moorcroft: We are agents of "Sainsbury Bank" [sic]. We have been asked to contact the a/c holder and we have been provided this address by a credit ref. agency. Please contact us to confirm the position [???] so that we can make the appropriate arrangements. However, if you believe that you are not the person responsible for the account, it is important that you contact us immediately, either by phone or letter.
AUG Letter from Moorcroft in Comic Sans font: IMPORTANT INFORMATION - POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION. To prevent further debt recovery action, please send your payment proposal before a date three days hence or phone 0161 within the next seven days [durr?]. If you do not contact us following receipt of this letter we may have no alternative other than to recommend to our clients that they consider possible further debt recovery action against you, which may follow. Contact us now and we would be happy to discuss a payment programme that you can afford and maintain, In certain circumstances we may also be able to offer a substantial discount from the outstanding balance. Contact us now.
SEP Sent Telephone Harassment letter to Moorcroft
SEP LONG letter from Moorcroft: We confirm your a/c has been amended so that you receive no telephone contact from us whilst written contact is now [sic] maintained. // Our records do not appear to show any direct telephone contact has been achieved. [snipped, see #7].
SEP Sent follow-up Telephone Harassment letter to Moorcroft and another confirmation that I had paid the £1.00 fee in January
OCT Another long letter from Moorcroft: Blah guff about their calls not constituting harassment // We do not appear to have received the £1.00 fee [I didn't send it to them, I sent it to OC in Jan] // Blah, wrangle over the £1.00 [...] however, to assist in this matter I have requested that our client provides us with a copy of the CCA and statements of this account that support the liability suggested by our client. [snipped, see #7].
NOV Letter from Moorcroft: We have contacted our client; account remains on hold whilst client continues to investigate the matter.
DEC Letter from Moorcroft: Our client advises us that a copy of the agreement has been sent to you previously. They believe that this now settles matters and have instructed us to help them recover this debt for which they believe you remain liable. If you have further concerns I ask that you provide specific reasons why you may not be liable for this account. // Your account remains on hold for a further 14 days.
2013
JAN Letter from Moorcroft We have had no further contact from you in relation to this account. Without any further contact from you the account can only be held for a further 28 days. After this time the account will be closed and returned to our client who will then decide on any future action. // We would therefore request that you contact us to let us know how you wish to proceed with this account in order for us to assist you further.
MAR Letter on Sainsbury's letterhead (but obviously from Wescot) As we haven't been able to agree a suitable repayment plan we've transferred your Sainsbury's Bank credit card to a debt collection agency, Wescot Credit Services Ltd. We've instructed Wescot to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. // Please contact Wescot a.s.a.p. to arrange to pay back the outstanding balance.
MAR Letter from Wescot Wescot Credit Services is a specialist DEBT COLLECTION organisation ... instructed by client to collect outstanding balance on their behalf. // You should follow the instructions and reply IMMEDIATELY. TO AVOID WESCOT TAKING FURTHER ACTION, YOU MUST 1) PAY THE DEBT IN FULL, OR 2) CONTACT US ON 0845 ...
MAR Sent Account sold in dispute letter to Wescot
MAR Letter from Wescot [Received one week after date on letter] FINAL NOTICE. Our latest enquiries have now confirmed that you are still resident at this address but we have not received a reply to our previous correspondence. // Unless you contact us to agree full repayment within the next ten days further collection activity will be taken to recover the full outstanding balance.
MAR Letter from Wescot: We acknowledge that you have raised a query on this account. // We will contact you again
APR Letter from Wescot: We will investigate the issues you have raised and contact you again in due course
MAY Letter from Wescot: We are not yet in a position to provide you with a final response
MAY Letter from Wescot: I was concerned to not the matter you have raised // I can confirm our client has advised your request under the CCA has been processed by them and the relevant documents have been issued to you directly. Your account has been placed on hold for 30 days for you to contact Wescot with your proposals for repayment
JUL Letter from Wescot: Thank you for your recent contact. We acknowledge that you have raised a request for documentation on this account.
JUL Letter from Wescot: Thank you for your patience; we can confirm that your account remains on hold whilst we await further information from our client.
AUG Letter from Wescot: We refer to your recent communication; please find enclosed copy agreement as requested. Payment is now required and can be made by debit card or by calling 0844 .... (They enclose a copy of a one-page application form with signature; no terms)
AUG Letter from Wescot: Reduced settlement offer // As a final attempt to avoid further action, our client has agreed that we can offer you a discount to settle your account. For a limited period only ... contact us in the next ten days or the offer will be withdrawn. Unless a suitable arrangement plan is reached within 10 days of this letter, further recovery action will be taken.
SEP Letter from Wescot: Opportunity to take control of your outstanding balance -- We understand that there might be many reasons why you have not responded to us in relation to this account. [...] Wescot are specialists in establishing repayment plans that best suit the needs of clients and their customers. [...] (a bunch more touchy-feely waffle) Contact us today where one of our dedicated operators will help you make a fresh start.
SEP Letter from Wescot: Doorstep collection visit. As we know of no genuine reason why you have failed to repay the outstanding balance, instructions will now be provided to Scotcall, a doorstep collection agency, to make an appointment with you to visit your home address. The purpose of this visit is to agree with you how you will repay this debt. You have a final opportunity to avoid referral to Scotcall by telephoning us urgently to agree a suitable method of repayment of the outstanding balance.
SEP Sent No doorstep visit letter to Wescot
OCT Letter from Wescot: Thank you for your recent contact; we acknowledge that you have raised a request for documentation. // We need to contact our client; may take several weeks; appreciate your patience.

Hmm. Bit of an odd one given that they sent a copy of the application form a couple of months ago. Now they're asking for another quid to do a reconstituted agreement. Their filing systems are even more ropey than I imagined! -->

OCT Letter from Wescot: Having contacted our client they have advised they will be unable to provide a copy of the original agreement due to the age of the account. The reconstituted agreement can be provided if you send your request in writing, quoting s77-79 of the 1974 CCA, and enclose the required £1. // To allow you to comply with our client's request, we have placed your account on hold for 21 days. Please keep us updated with the situation as your account may be returned to the collection process after the hold period expires.

Would this be a wait-and-see-what-they-send-next?

(PS On counting this, I've had quite a stamp-saving ratio of letters needing to be sent v letters received since Wescot first got involved with this: they've sent me fifteen letters while I've only had to send them two! )

[vint1954]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

CapQuest have managed to get Halifax to find the application form ...

OCT Letter from CapQuest: Please find enclosed copy document(s) as requested [Copy of application form enclosed but no terms]. If you are not currently repaying this account on arrangement, it is now imperative that you deal with this matter immediately by sending your payment directly to us. // We have placed your account on hold for seven days. If we do not receive contact from you by this date your account will be passed to our Collections department for further action. Signed, "Collections Administration".

Capquest have bought this debt ... wondering if I need to send a Missing Prescribed Terms just yet or wait for them to pass this on from "Collections Administration" to "Collection Department", according to their letter?

Yep, missing PT's letter Pip

[vint1954]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Hmm. Bit of an odd one given that they sent a copy of the application form a couple of months ago. Now they're asking for another quid to do a reconstituted agreement. Their filing systems are even more ropey than I imagined! -->

OCT Letter from Wescot: Having contacted our client they have advised they will be unable to provide a copy of the original agreement due to the age of the account. The reconstituted agreement can be provided if you send your request in writing, quoting s77-79 of the 1974 CCA, and enclose the required £1. // To allow you to comply with our client's request, we have placed your account on hold for 21 days. Please keep us updated with the situation as your account may be returned to the collection process after the hold period expires.

Would this be a wait-and-see-what-they-send-next?

I would send them a one liner referring to your Missing PT's letter Jan 2012. Enclose a copy.

Remind them that you have paid the stat fee to Sainsburys so no further payment due

They purchased the problems along with the debt.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thanks vint, on both accounts. Will do!

[vint1954]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

No problem Pip

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 3
Lloyds TSB
Start date: Jan 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £13,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued November 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request letter sent to Lloyds TSB (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN Letter from B*L*S*** Collections saying payment plan is now in arrears [payment into DMP reduced in December]. "To avoid action, blah, make payment with debit or CREDIT CARD. Contact CAB or CCCS."
JAN Identical letter to one above from B*L*S*** Collections, dated/arriving one day later
JAN Reply to CCA request received from Lloyds TSB -- Niddy says !
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter
JAN Letter from BLS Collections saying "It is essential that you telephone BLS Collections TODAY. " in capitals, bold AND underlined! [this is due to reduced payment they received last month. Payments have now stopped altogether]
JAN Letter from BLS Collections: "Repayment plan you agreed to is still overdue. We have previously reminded you about the money and you must pay the amount outstanding straight away. If you don't pay the outstanding amount to bring your account back on track within 10 days you will fall further into arrears etc./payment plan will be cancelled and full balance will be due. They're Lloyds TSB's in-house DCA/letter printing machine -- do I need to respond to this? See also Lloyds TSB letter received below
JAN Letter from Lloyds TSB: According to our records we supplied reconstituted copies of the agreement in place at the time the account was opened and the one currently in place. By providing these copies, we satisfied our obligation under s.78. // The regulations define what is required of a "copy". Whilst regulation 3 provided "every copy" of an executed agreement... shall be a true copy". [sic -- sentence ends there] Regulation 3(2) (b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature. // In summary, to comply with s.78, copy does not need to be a copy with the customer's signature on it. [snipped, see post #3]
FEB Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: Essential that you call BLS TODAY.
FEB Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: In arrears // Failure to contact may result in court proceedings, door-to-door collections agent
FEB Sent Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action
MAR Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: Essential that you call BLS TODAY.
MAR Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: We wrote to you recently and can only assume, due to your lack of contact, that you have no intention of paying this debt on a voluntary basis. // If you do not contact us on the above telephone number within the next 14 days, you will force us to commence legal action against you. This will occur additional fees and cost, estimated to be a minimum of £290. [snipped, see post #3]
MAR Replied sending copies of Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action previously sent to them which they have so far ignored
APR Letter on Lloyds TSB letterhead but with Robinson Way address at top right of page: Statement of account going back a year [laid out like a letter, not a "regular" credit card statement] Wording includes: If you have a problem with your agreement, please try and settle it with us in the first instance.
APR Letter from Robinson Way (same day as above LTSB statement letter): FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT. Our client has authorised us to recover the full amount you owe. PLEASE PAY blah. If you cannot pay in full, call us to agree an affordable payment plan. If you don't, we may advise court action. If you fail to pay in accordance with court payment order, the following may occur: # Application made to court to enforce repayment [?], # Future credit will be difficult to obtain [durr!]. # This account may continue to be a worry for you. Unpaid debts don't just go away or get forgotten no matter how much people want that to happen.
APR Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Robinson Way
APR Letter from Robinson Way [above sold in dispute letter has crossed with this one]: SECURITY TELEMESSAGE - SECURITY TELEMESSAGE [yet so urgent that they sent it via Mailsort-type bulk mail] RECENT ACTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT ARE GIVING CAUSE FOR CONCERN - PLEASE CONTACT US IMMEDIATELY ON 0845 - PLEASE DO NOT DELAY - QUOTE ABOVE REFERENCE NUMBER - SECURITY TELEMESSAGE - SECURITY TELEMESSAGE
MAY Letter from Robinson Way: Please note we have noted the dispute/query you have raised; we will make enquiries and let you know the outcome. In the meantime we will stop all collection activity for this account.
SEP Letter from Apex Credit Mgt: Our client is aware of the difficult financial circumstances that a number of their customers are currently experiencing. As a result they have authorised us to consider a discounted settlement figure against the above listed debt. We may be able to offer you a substantial discount on your balance and would like to explore this option with you. This offer is available for a period of 21 days from the date of this letter. To confirm eligibility and take advantage of this enhanced opportunity to clear this debt, please contact us without delay.
SEP Letter from H L Solicitors / H L Legal: NOTICE OF PENDING LEGAL ACTION // We have been instructed by Apex, agents for above named creditor [Lloyds TSB] in relation to your outstanding sum. // Unless our client received payment in full or a valid reason for non-payment of the account within the next 7 days, court proceedings may be taken against you without further notice. // Should court proceedings be issued, you will by liable for X, Y and Z which would significantly increase your balance. If judgment is entered against you, it may make it difficult for you to obtain credit in future. // Please note, we are instructed not to enter into correspondence with you but to refer you to Apex. You can contact them on the number stated above or at the address supplied on previous correspondence.
SEP Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Apex Credit Mgt
OCT Letter from Apex Credit Mgt: With reference to your dispute, Lloyds Banking Group have confirmed a final response letter has been issued. Please see enclosed a copy of the final response dated January 2012. If you are unhappy with the outcome of your dispute, please contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and update us accordingly. If you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact us.
2013
FEB Letter "from Lloyds TSB" [but in an envelope with Wescot's address on the back]: As we haven't been able to agree a suitable repayment plan we've transferred your Lloyds TSB credit card to a debt collection agency, Wescot Credit Services Ltd. We've instructed Wescot to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. // Please contact Wescot a.s.a.p. to arrange to pay back the outstanding balance.
MAR Letter from Wescot Wescot Credit Services is a specialist DEBT COLLECTION organisation ... instructed by client to collect outstanding balance on their behalf. // You should follow the instructions and reply IMMEDIATELY. TO AVOID WESCOT TAKING FURTHER ACTION, YOU MUST 1) PAY THE DEBT IN FULL, OR 2) CONTACT US ON 0845 ...
MAR Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Wescot
MAR Letter from Wescot We acknowledge that you have raised a query on this account // We will suspend all collection activity whilst the matter is under investigation. // As our investigation of your query will require us to contact our client, this process may take several weeks. We would appreciate your patience during this time. Upon concluding our investigation we will contact you again.
MAR Letter from Wescot Having contacted our client they have advised that they had sent a letter to you in January 2012 with regards to your dispute (copy enclosed). // We believe the dispute has now been resolved and the full balance or an agreed monthly instalment is required by return. // In the event you believe you still have a valid dispute, please contact us with details wihin the next 14 days otherwise your account will be returned to our recovery team for collection [enclosed copy letter from Lloyds TSB from Jan 2012 (but with no LTSB letterhead): "According to our records we supplied reconstituted copies ..." above)
JUN Letter from Lloyds TSB "Statement of account" in the form of a letter (actually from Lloyds and not a DCA pretending to be them)
NOV Letter from Lloyds Bank We've transferred your account to Capquest, whom we've instructed to arrange collection of the outstanding amount..
NOV Letter from Capquest This is to inform you that this account has been referred to Capquest to manage in all matters related to collection which may include (•) Personal visit by our doorstep collection agency, (•) possible litigation. If contact is not made by [nine days hence] your account will be passed to our solicitors HL Legal. No contact will mean further action.
NOV Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Capquest

Hmm. This is likely a toothless threat-o-gram, but it probably warrants a firm response ...

NOV Letter from Capquest (From their automatic letter printing machine, sent less than a week after they received my sold in dispute letter, so probably crossed in the post): Prior to the start of legal proceedings various checks are made regarding your current circumstances. During this process it has been established that there are no outstanding CCJs registered against you at this address. // We are highlighting this to you as a matter of urgency. If we need to start the legal process and a CCJ is awarded, this may (blah etc. more consequences of CCJs). // We are not seeking an immediate payment in full; we can offer many repayment matters. All we ask is that you telephone us within the next ten days. No contact by this date will result in your account moving forward to litigation.

... perhaps I should send the Threat to Commence Litigation letter or otherwise leave it a few days as this probably isn't a response to my Sold in Dispute letter? Their "deadline" for contact in relation to this is the end of next week.
Many thanks as always!

[MrsD]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

I'd wait a few days and if you don't get a response to the SWID, pop off a one liner asking them to read it.

[nightwatch]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

we got one of those letters, I replied by thanking them for telling me where we lived and pointing out we had no CCj's and if they had asked me about that in any of the other numerous letters we had received from them. I could have cleared that matter up without them wasting valuable time, that could of been used READING the letters we had sent them, not heard anything back!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thanks Mrs D and Nightwatch!

I just had a look at your diary Nightwatch (thanks for letting me know about your crapquest/crapjest letter!) and it only took you about three months to give them the old heave-ho. As Mrs D suggests I'll leave it until next week and send a one-liner with a copy of the Sold in Dispute letter. I'll send it recorded this time rather than with a proof of posting.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 2
Halifax
Start date: Oct 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued April 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2011 = Pre-AAD days
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "intended litigation", referring to Halifax as "our client"
JUN CCA request letter sent to Moorcroft
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "possible litigation", including a list of silly potential fees
JUN Moorcroft confirming CCA request, say they've requested docs from Halifax; account on hold until docs supplied. Request for indication of info I would rely upon when giving evidence to a court (??!)
JUL Account in dispute letter sent (although, sillily, I was continuing to pay via DMP)
JUL Moorcroft confirming CCA request, identically worded to June letter
JUL Another account in dispute letter sent
JUL Moorcroft: "We understand our client has now contacted you with the relevant information [they hadn't] ... we trust that the documents resolve your query ...
SEP Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, saying that Moorcroft are responsible for the admin of the account and telling me I should pay them (even though they haven't bought it)
SEP Another account in dispute letter sent
NOV Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, same wording as Sep letter above
DEC CCA Final Demand sent to Moorcroft -- they signed for original CCA request letter in June and cashed the PO around the same time (checked with Post Office)

2012 = now following AAD guidance
JAN CCA request letter sent direct to Halifax (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN From Moorcróft: Missed call (early morning weekend) and text from Moorcróft: Please contact us immediately on 0161 ... to discuss your overdue payment on account no. xxx. Another missed call from Moorcroft a few days later (evening)
JAN Moorcroft letter: Records show not paid Halifax full amount [did pay them something in Dec though]. Unless payment received by return of post, we may recommend to our clients that they instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings without further notice. Neither we nor client wish to take this step; call us on above no. and we would be happy to agree a repayment plan.Note: Moorcroft don't own this debt, they know payment has continued to go to Halifax, so why the hell bother paying the monkey (or indeed the organ grinder)...
JAN CCA received from HBOS directly -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says and to wait for now to see what comes back from other lenders.
JAN Rather cryptically, have received a letter and £1 cheque from Moorcroft: "Further to your request for a copy of your credit agreement, we regret that because of the age of this account our client is unable to produce a copy of your document given that the agreement is over 6 years old and to this end we therefore return the £1 payment [...] Notwithstanding this our clients believe the above balance remains due and payable and we therefore require immediate payment of this sum or realistic proposals for repayment. The Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed that whereas a debtor is not obliged to repay the account due to the provisions of the CCA, this does not mean that there was no enforceable agreement. Look forward to hearing from you within next 14 days with proposals for discharging this liability."
FEB Moorcroft letter: "Home Collections Division". You have defaulted on agreement we reached [I didn't negotiate any agreement with Moorcroft]. This may involve our local rep calling at your home in next few day to try to assist you [...] Payment must reach us in three days. If no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local rep we'll have to recommend to client that solicitors commence legal proceedings without further notice.
FEB Sent Threat of Doorstep Visit letter
FEB Sent Letter Previously Confirming No CCA
FEB Exceedingly polite three-page letter (with two-page appendix) from Moorcroft! (with some grammar corkers): We confirm your account has been amended to ensure NO telephone calls and NO visits while contact is maintained in writing as you have suggested. We stress that it is certainly not our intention to harass any member of the public with our contact at our client's request [snipped, see post #2]APR Letter from CapQuest: Your Halifax account has been referred to CapQuest to manage in all matters relating to collection, which may include personal visits by doorstep collection agency and possible litigation. If you are not in a position to settle account in full contact us blah etc.
APR Sent Letter to CapQuest Previously Confirming No CCA
APR Letter from CapQuest: Further to your recent contact and request for further info, account is now on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain information required. // If you have any proof of payments or correspondence that would assist with your query, please forward these documents to our Collections Administration dept.
APR Letter from CapQuest: We thank you for your correspondence and respond as follows: we can confirm we have requested a copy of the agreement from our client
JUL Letter from Halifax: As we haven't been able to agree to a suitable repayment plan, we've transferred your Halifax credit card to a debt collection agency, Robinson Way. We've instructed Robinson Way to arrange collection of the outstanding amount.
JUL Letter from Robinson Way: FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT // Our client has authorised us to recover full amount. If you don't we may advise our client to start court action. If this, then that; unpaid debts don't just go away, blah etc.
JUL 2012 Sent Letter to Robinson Way Previously Confirming No CCA

2013
JUL 2013 Letter from CapQuest: Welcome to Capquest. We're now looking after your account. Capquest will now manage your account that has been sold by Halifax to Capquest Investments Ltd (this is the first I've heard of it). We need to discuss your account. We'd like to work with you to reach a payment arrangement [...] Capquest Investments Ltd is now the data controller of your personal information that is held on your account. If you want to see the personal information about you that we hold, please write to us sending us £10 as the fee that we may charge under the Data Protection Act. blah etc. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.
AUG Letter from CapQuest: We refer to our recent letter. As legal owners of this account, we are able to obtain regular updated from credit reference agencies regarding your current financial position. We use this data to evaluate what steps should be taken to get your account into a paying status. We will use financial updates from CRAs in conjunction with other factors in determining our recovery strategy, which may include legal action. // Alternatively [...] you do not have to pay the full balance immediately; we will work with you to agree an acceptable arrangement. [...] We will need you to contact us within the next 14 days to discuss the opportunities further.
AUG Sent Letter to Capquest Previously Confirming No CCA
AUG Letter from CapQuest: As you will now be aware your account is being processed for legal action. Your account has been selected for a one-time solution to settle your account (pay 70% of total in instalments). This offer will remain open for 10 days. If at any time you find yourself in difficultly, and you will not be able to make a scheduled payment, telephone us and we will reschedule your account without penalty. If, however, you fail in your commitment without good cause or reason the offer will be withdrawn. // We hope that you seriously consider this proposal. Yours sincerely, Capquest [i.e. not a named person]
SEP Letter from CapQuest: Further to your recent contact, your account is on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain the info required.
OCT Letter from CapQuest: Please find enclosed copy document(s) as requested [Copy of application form enclosed but no terms]. If you are not currently repaying this account on arrangement, it is now imperative that you deal with this matter immediately by sending your payment directly to us. // We have placed your account on hold for seven days. If we do not receive contact from you by this date your account will be passed to our Collections department for further action. Signed, "Collections Administration".
OCT Sent Letter to Capquest Missing Prescribed Terms
OCT Letter from CapQuest: We regret that you have been dissatisfied with our service
NOV Letter from CapQuest: We apologise for the delay in dealing with your complain

Bit of a long one from Capquest ...

NOV Letter from CapQuest: A copy of the agreement was sent to you in October and I enclose a further copy. Statements and terms & conditions have been requested from the original creditor and your account will remain on hold until we receive these documents. We appreciate that you believe the agreement is unenforceable, however it is likely you would have received a copy of the agreement when your credit card was issued. You would have had every opportunity to raise any issues with the OC that you may have had in relation to the agreement at that time. // Please be advised that the copy of the agreement may refer to the prescribed terms for your account; however it is sufficient for you to be provided with a copy of the full T&Cs upon signing the agreement [?]. Also, the documents you request do not need to be provided on a single piece of paper to constitute a single document. [Copy of signed application form with scratchy T&Cs on back enclosed]

I need to have a look through the diaries to see what Capquest are like when they've bought an account; how mean they can be! I'll hang on to see what they send once they've received more stuff from the OC. A good outcome would be if they just chucked it out to another DCA but I'm not sure whether they would do that, seeing as Capquest are themselves bottom-feeders of the lowest order ...

Any other insights though gratefully received!

[Pixie]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Capquest have progressed from being bottom feeders

Their "Fresh Approach" and management changes forced their hand. They're scum like Lowell now.

See this -> http://www.capquest.co.uk

bragging about a new approach grrrrrr

CQ are claim happy so we need to keep an eye on them.

I'd send Creditor Refusal to Accept UE Status rather than hanging on to see what they send next.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Oo 'eck, Pixie! Thanks so much for the warning!

The thing that they said they were requesting from the OC is (presumably) the "current" terms.

Thanks very much also for flagging up Mrs Scarednshakin's diary. I read in her diary that Niddy recommends doing a CCA request to Capquest when they assign accounts. As part of their response to Sold in Dispute, they've already sent me a copy of the signed application form with scratchy T&Cs on the reverse. I should perhaps email Niddy a scan of what they've sent.

Should I in any case send off a new CCA request (if that is what is meant by "s.78")? If it goes to a different department (if I just send it to the main postal address) it may take a while for them to get their knickers untwisted.
Many many thanks for the amazing help and advice on this site. It's like no other!

[Pixie]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Sorry...didn't mean to scare you Pip.

Yes scan and email what they sent to Niddy.

I don't think you need to send a new cca request (yes, that's what's meant by s.78) as they've sent you two ccas since they bought your Halifax account in July (others might think differently)

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 3
Lloyds TSB
Start date: Jan 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £13,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued November 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request letter sent to Lloyds TSB (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN Letter from B*L*S*** Collections saying payment plan is now in arrears [payment into DMP reduced in December]. "To avoid action, blah, make payment with debit or CREDIT CARD. Contact CAB or CCCS."
JAN Identical letter to one above from B*L*S*** Collections, dated/arriving one day later
JAN Reply to CCA request received from Lloyds TSB -- Niddy says !
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter
JAN Letter from BLS Collections saying "It is essential that you telephone BLS Collections TODAY. " in capitals, bold AND underlined! [this is due to reduced payment they received last month. Payments have now stopped altogether]
JAN Letter from BLS Collections: "Repayment plan you agreed to is still overdue. We have previously reminded you about the money and you must pay the amount outstanding straight away. If you don't pay the outstanding amount to bring your account back on track within 10 days you will fall further into arrears etc./payment plan will be cancelled and full balance will be due. They're Lloyds TSB's in-house DCA/letter printing machine -- do I need to respond to this? See also Lloyds TSB letter received below
JAN Letter from Lloyds TSB: According to our records we supplied reconstituted copies of the agreement in place at the time the account was opened and the one currently in place. By providing these copies, we satisfied our obligation under s.78. // The regulations define what is required of a "copy". Whilst regulation 3 provided "every copy" of an executed agreement... shall be a true copy". [sic -- sentence ends there] Regulation 3(2) (b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature. // In summary, to comply with s.78, copy does not need to be a copy with the customer's signature on it. [snipped, see post #3]
FEB Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: Essential that you call BLS TODAY.
FEB Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: In arrears // Failure to contact may result in court proceedings, door-to-door collections agent
FEB Sent Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action
MAR Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: Essential that you call BLS TODAY.
MAR Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: We wrote to you recently and can only assume, due to your lack of contact, that you have no intention of paying this debt on a voluntary basis. // If you do not contact us on the above telephone number within the next 14 days, you will force us to commence legal action against you. This will occur additional fees and cost, estimated to be a minimum of £290. [snipped, see post #3]
MAR Replied sending copies of Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action previously sent to them which they have so far ignored
APR Letter on Lloyds TSB letterhead but with Robinson Way address at top right of page: Statement of account going back a year [laid out like a letter, not a "regular" credit card statement] Wording includes: If you have a problem with your agreement, please try and settle it with us in the first instance.
APR Letter from Robinson Way (same day as above LTSB statement letter): FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT. Our client has authorised us to recover the full amount you owe. PLEASE PAY blah. If you cannot pay in full, call us to agree an affordable payment plan. If you don't, we may advise court action. If you fail to pay in accordance with court payment order, the following may occur: # Application made to court to enforce repayment [?], # Future credit will be difficult to obtain [durr!]. # This account may continue to be a worry for you. Unpaid debts don't just go away or get forgotten no matter how much people want that to happen.
APR Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Robinson Way
APR Letter from Robinson Way [above sold in dispute letter has crossed with this one]: SECURITY TELEMESSAGE - SECURITY TELEMESSAGE [yet so urgent that they sent it via Mailsort-type bulk mail] RECENT ACTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT ARE GIVING CAUSE FOR CONCERN - PLEASE CONTACT US IMMEDIATELY ON 0845 - PLEASE DO NOT DELAY - QUOTE ABOVE REFERENCE NUMBER - SECURITY TELEMESSAGE - SECURITY TELEMESSAGE
MAY Letter from Robinson Way: Please note we have noted the dispute/query you have raised; we will make enquiries and let you know the outcome. In the meantime we will stop all collection activity for this account.
SEP Letter from Apex Credit Mgt: Our client is aware of the difficult financial circumstances that a number of their customers are currently experiencing. As a result they have authorised us to consider a discounted settlement figure against the above listed debt. We may be able to offer you a substantial discount on your balance and would like to explore this option with you. This offer is available for a period of 21 days from the date of this letter. To confirm eligibility and take advantage of this enhanced opportunity to clear this debt, please contact us without delay.
SEP Letter from H L Solicitors / H L Legal: NOTICE OF PENDING LEGAL ACTION // We have been instructed by Apex, agents for above named creditor [Lloyds TSB] in relation to your outstanding sum. // Unless our client received payment in full or a valid reason for non-payment of the account within the next 7 days, court proceedings may be taken against you without further notice. // Should court proceedings be issued, you will by liable for X, Y and Z which would significantly increase your balance. If judgment is entered against you, it may make it difficult for you to obtain credit in future. // Please note, we are instructed not to enter into correspondence with you but to refer you to Apex. You can contact them on the number stated above or at the address supplied on previous correspondence.
SEP Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Apex Credit Mgt
OCT Letter from Apex Credit Mgt: With reference to your dispute, Lloyds Banking Group have confirmed a final response letter has been issued. Please see enclosed a copy of the final response dated January 2012. If you are unhappy with the outcome of your dispute, please contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and update us accordingly. If you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact us.
2013
FEB Letter "from Lloyds TSB" [but in an envelope with Wescot's address on the back]: As we haven't been able to agree a suitable repayment plan we've transferred your Lloyds TSB credit card to a debt collection agency, Wescot Credit Services Ltd. We've instructed Wescot to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. // Please contact Wescot a.s.a.p. to arrange to pay back the outstanding balance.
MAR Letter from Wescot Wescot Credit Services is a specialist DEBT COLLECTION organisation ... instructed by client to collect outstanding balance on their behalf. // You should follow the instructions and reply IMMEDIATELY. TO AVOID WESCOT TAKING FURTHER ACTION, YOU MUST 1) PAY THE DEBT IN FULL, OR 2) CONTACT US ON 0845 ...
MAR Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Wescot
MAR Letter from Wescot We acknowledge that you have raised a query on this account // We will suspend all collection activity whilst the matter is under investigation. // As our investigation of your query will require us to contact our client, this process may take several weeks. We would appreciate your patience during this time. Upon concluding our investigation we will contact you again.
MAR Letter from Wescot Having contacted our client they have advised that they had sent a letter to you in January 2012 with regards to your dispute (copy enclosed). // We believe the dispute has now been resolved and the full balance or an agreed monthly instalment is required by return. // In the event you believe you still have a valid dispute, please contact us with details wihin the next 14 days otherwise your account will be returned to our recovery team for collection [enclosed copy letter from Lloyds TSB from Jan 2012 (but with no LTSB letterhead): "According to our records we supplied reconstituted copies ..." above)
JUN Letter from Lloyds TSB "Statement of account" in the form of a letter (actually from Lloyds and not a DCA pretending to be them)
NOV Letter from Lloyds Bank We've transferred your account to Capquest, whom we've instructed to arrange collection of the outstanding amount..
NOV Letter from Capquest This is to inform you that this account has been referred to Capquest to manage in all matters related to collection which may include (•) Personal visit by our doorstep collection agency, (•) possible litigation. If contact is not made by [nine days hence] your account will be passed to our solicitors HL Legal. No contact will mean further action.
NOV Sent Account sold whilst in dispute letter to Capquest
NOV Letter from Capquest (From their automatic letter printing machine, sent less than a week after they received my sold in dispute letter, so probably crossed in the post): Prior to the start of legal proceedings various checks are made regarding your current circumstances. During this process it has been established that there are no outstanding CCJs registered against you at this address. // We are highlighting this to you as a matter of urgency. If we need to start the legal process and a CCJ is awarded, this may (blah etc. more consequences of CCJs). // We are not seeking an immediate payment in full; we can offer many repayment matters. All we ask is that you telephone us within the next ten days. No contact by this date will result in your account moving forward to litigation.

Doh!

DEC Letter from Capquest Pleased be advised that in order to provide you with a copy of the agreement you will need to provide a £1 fee payable to Capquest. Once this fee has been received we can request the copy of the agreement from our client.

Wonder whether to write back already with a copy of original CCA payment proof that was sent to to the OC, or wait until Capquest write again?

[vint1954]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

You could write back advising them to check back with all of the previous chasers and OC and that you are waiting for the OC to comply with the original CCA Request. let them run around for a few months