Re: Pip's UE Diary
Capquest have responded to the CCA request:
Here's a colour-coded(!) rundown of what has been sent when:
Jan 2012: OC sent copy of signed application form, current and original T&Cs. Niddy said
Oct 2013: Capquest (new owner of debt) sent a copy of signed application form* only
Mar 2014: Capquest sent current* and original* T&Cs, and strangely formatted statements (but no copy of the application form).
Apr 2014: Capquest sent original* T&Cs, signed application form* and strangely formatted statements (but no copy of the "current" terms).
* same as provided by OC in Jan 2012
Essentially, despite these various permutations of what has been sent, this is as confirmed by Niddy. They haven't got heavy just yet, saying just: "Please contact us to discuss payment options". Once I've gone out of their correspondence and admin dept's in-tray, I'd hope it would get chucked onto the DCA merry-go-round. I'm tempted to wait to see what they send next and indeed what the tone of that is. Other suggestions and advice as welcome as ever though!
Originally posted by Pip
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Pip's account no. 2
Halifax
Start date: Oct 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued April 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)
2011 = Pre-AAD days
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "intended litigation", referring to Halifax as "our client"
JUN CCA request letter sent to Moorcroft
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "possible litigation", including a list of silly potential fees
JUN Moorcroft confirming CCA request, say they've requested docs from Halifax; account on hold until docs supplied. Request for indication of info I would rely upon when giving evidence to a court (??!)
JUL Account in dispute letter sent (although, sillily, I was continuing to pay via DMP)
JUL Moorcroft confirming CCA request, identically worded to June letter
JUL Another account in dispute letter sent
JUL Moorcroft: "We understand our client has now contacted you with the relevant information [they hadn't] ... we trust that the documents resolve your query ...
SEP Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, saying that Moorcroft are responsible for the admin of the account and telling me I should pay them (even though they haven't bought it)
SEP Another account in dispute letter sent
NOV Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, same wording as Sep letter above
DEC CCA Final Demand sent to Moorcroft -- they signed for original CCA request letter in June and cashed the PO around the same time (checked with Post Office)
2012 = now following AAD guidance
JAN CCA request letter sent direct to Halifax (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN From Moorcróft: Missed call (early morning weekend) and text from Moorcróft: Please contact us immediately on 0161 ... to discuss your overdue payment on account no. xxx. Another missed call from Moorcroft a few days later (evening)
JAN Moorcroft letter: Records show not paid Halifax full amount [did pay them something in Dec though]. Unless payment received by return of post, we may recommend to our clients that they instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings without further notice. Neither we nor client wish to take this step; call us on above no. and we would be happy to agree a repayment plan.Note: Moorcroft don't own this debt, they know payment has continued to go to Halifax, so why the hell bother paying the monkey (or indeed the organ grinder)...
JAN CCA received from HBOS directly -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says and to wait for now to see what comes back from other lenders.
JAN Rather cryptically, have received a letter and £1 cheque from Moorcroft: "Further to your request for a copy of your credit agreement, we regret that because of the age of this account our client is unable to produce a copy of your document given that the agreement is over 6 years old and to this end we therefore return the £1 payment [...] Notwithstanding this our clients believe the above balance remains due and payable and we therefore require immediate payment of this sum or realistic proposals for repayment. The Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed that whereas a debtor is not obliged to repay the account due to the provisions of the CCA, this does not mean that there was no enforceable agreement. Look forward to hearing from you within next 14 days with proposals for discharging this liability."
FEB Moorcroft letter: "Home Collections Division". You have defaulted on agreement we reached [I didn't negotiate any agreement with Moorcroft]. This may involve our local rep calling at your home in next few day to try to assist you [...] Payment must reach us in three days. If no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local rep we'll have to recommend to client that solicitors commence legal proceedings without further notice.
FEB Sent Threat of Doorstep Visit letter
FEB Sent Letter Previously Confirming No CCA
FEB Exceedingly polite three-page letter (with two-page appendix) from Moorcroft! (with some grammar corkers): We confirm your account has been amended to ensure NO telephone calls and NO visits while contact is maintained in writing as you have suggested. We stress that it is certainly not our intention to harass any member of the public with our contact at our client's request ... ["any member of the public"?? Like a random shopper in the high street?]. // Our records show that we have providided [sic] you with our client's response advising that due to the age of this account our client would be unable to provide this documentation for you [and very nice of you to put it in writing for me again, thank you very much!].// We feel it prudent at this point to bring to you attention the following information: In relation to the validity of a debt, it is our understanding that the Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed blah unenforceablity [I can't for the life of me think what the Information Commissioner has to do with this?]. // Account will remain on hold for 28 days to give you an opportunity to respond. Should we receive no further contact within the 28 days we believe it is sensible to close this account on our systems and return this account back to our client.
APR Letter from CapQuest: Your Halifax account has been referred to CapQuest to manage in all matters relating to collection, which may include personal visits by doorstep collection agency and possible litigation. If you are not in a position to settle account in full contact us blah etc.
APR Sent Letter to CapQuest Previously Confirming No CCA
APR Letter from CapQuest: Further to your recent contact and request for further info, account is now on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain information required. // If you have any proof of payments or correspondence that would assist with your query, please forward these documents to our Collections Administration dept.
APR Letter from CapQuest: We thank you for your correspondence and respond as follows: we can confirm we have requested a copy of the agreement from our client
JUL Letter from Halifax: As we haven't been able to agree to a suitable repayment plan, we've transferred your Halifax credit card to a debt collection agency, Robinson Way. We've instructed Robinson Way to arrange collection of the outstanding amount.
JUL Letter from Robinson Way: FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT // Our client has authorised us to recover full amount. If you don't we may advise our client to start court action. If this, then that; unpaid debts don't just go away, blah etc.
JUL 2012 Sent Letter to Robinson Way Previously Confirming No CCA
2013
JUL 2013 Letter from CapQuest: Welcome to Capquest. We're now looking after your account. Capquest will now manage your account that has been sold by Halifax to Capquest Investments Ltd (this is the first I've heard of it). We need to discuss your account. We'd like to work with you to reach a payment arrangement [...] Capquest Investments Ltd is now the data controller of your personal information that is held on your account. If you want to see the personal information about you that we hold, please write to us sending us £10 as the fee that we may charge under the Data Protection Act. blah etc. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.
AUG Letter from CapQuest: We refer to our recent letter. As legal owners of this account, we are able to obtain regular updated from credit reference agencies regarding your current financial position. We use this data to evaluate what steps should be taken to get your account into a paying status. We will use financial updates from CRAs in conjunction with other factors in determining our recovery strategy, which may include legal action. // Alternatively [...] you do not have to pay the full balance immediately; we will work with you to agree an acceptable arrangement. [...] We will need you to contact us within the next 14 days to discuss the opportunities further.
AUG Sent Letter to Capquest Previously Confirming No CCA
AUG Letter from CapQuest: As you will now be aware your account is being processed for legal action. Your account has been selected for a one-time solution to settle your account (pay 70% of total in instalments). This offer will remain open for 10 days. If at any time you find yourself in difficultly, and you will not be able to make a scheduled payment, telephone us and we will reschedule your account without penalty. If, however, you fail in your commitment without good cause or reason the offer will be withdrawn. // We hope that you seriously consider this proposal. Yours sincerely, Capquest [i.e. not a named person]
SEP Letter from CapQuest: Further to your recent contact, your account is on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain the info required.
OCT Letter from CapQuest: Please find enclosed copy document(s) as requested [Copy of application form enclosed but no terms]. If you are not currently repaying this account on arrangement, it is now imperative that you deal with this matter immediately by sending your payment directly to us. // We have placed your account on hold for seven days. If we do not receive contact from you by this date your account will be passed to our Collections department for further action. Signed, "Collections Administration".
OCT Sent Letter to Capquest Missing Prescribed Terms
OCT Letter from CapQuest: We regret that you have been dissatisfied with our service
NOV Letter from CapQuest: We apologise for the delay in dealing with your complaint
NOV Letter from CapQuest: A copy of the agreement was sent to you in October and I enclose a further copy. Statements and terms & conditions have been requested from the original creditor and your account will remain on hold until we receive these documents. We appreciate that you believe the agreement is unenforceable, however it is likely you would have received a copy of the agreement when your credit card was issued. You would have had every opportunity to raise any issues with the OC that you may have had in relation to the agreement at that time. // Please be advised that the copy of the agreement may refer to the prescribed terms for your account; however it is sufficient for you to be provided with a copy of the full T&Cs upon signing the agreement [?]. Also, the documents you request do not need to be provided on a single piece of paper to constitute a single document. [Copy of signed application form with scratchy T&Cs on back enclosed]
2014
MAR Letter from CapQuest: Letter containing bunch of unformatted statements and T&Cs. and "Please contact our Collections department to arrange suitable method of payment. Account on hold for 30 days to allow you time to contact us regarding repayment".
APR Sent CCA request to Capquest
Halifax
Start date: Oct 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued April 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)
2011 = Pre-AAD days
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "intended litigation", referring to Halifax as "our client"
JUN CCA request letter sent to Moorcroft
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "possible litigation", including a list of silly potential fees
JUN Moorcroft confirming CCA request, say they've requested docs from Halifax; account on hold until docs supplied. Request for indication of info I would rely upon when giving evidence to a court (??!)
JUL Account in dispute letter sent (although, sillily, I was continuing to pay via DMP)
JUL Moorcroft confirming CCA request, identically worded to June letter
JUL Another account in dispute letter sent
JUL Moorcroft: "We understand our client has now contacted you with the relevant information [they hadn't] ... we trust that the documents resolve your query ...
SEP Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, saying that Moorcroft are responsible for the admin of the account and telling me I should pay them (even though they haven't bought it)
SEP Another account in dispute letter sent
NOV Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, same wording as Sep letter above
DEC CCA Final Demand sent to Moorcroft -- they signed for original CCA request letter in June and cashed the PO around the same time (checked with Post Office)
2012 = now following AAD guidance
JAN CCA request letter sent direct to Halifax (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN From Moorcróft: Missed call (early morning weekend) and text from Moorcróft: Please contact us immediately on 0161 ... to discuss your overdue payment on account no. xxx. Another missed call from Moorcroft a few days later (evening)
JAN Moorcroft letter: Records show not paid Halifax full amount [did pay them something in Dec though]. Unless payment received by return of post, we may recommend to our clients that they instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings without further notice. Neither we nor client wish to take this step; call us on above no. and we would be happy to agree a repayment plan.Note: Moorcroft don't own this debt, they know payment has continued to go to Halifax, so why the hell bother paying the monkey (or indeed the organ grinder)...
JAN CCA received from HBOS directly -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says and to wait for now to see what comes back from other lenders.
JAN Rather cryptically, have received a letter and £1 cheque from Moorcroft: "Further to your request for a copy of your credit agreement, we regret that because of the age of this account our client is unable to produce a copy of your document given that the agreement is over 6 years old and to this end we therefore return the £1 payment [...] Notwithstanding this our clients believe the above balance remains due and payable and we therefore require immediate payment of this sum or realistic proposals for repayment. The Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed that whereas a debtor is not obliged to repay the account due to the provisions of the CCA, this does not mean that there was no enforceable agreement. Look forward to hearing from you within next 14 days with proposals for discharging this liability."
FEB Moorcroft letter: "Home Collections Division". You have defaulted on agreement we reached [I didn't negotiate any agreement with Moorcroft]. This may involve our local rep calling at your home in next few day to try to assist you [...] Payment must reach us in three days. If no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local rep we'll have to recommend to client that solicitors commence legal proceedings without further notice.
FEB Sent Threat of Doorstep Visit letter
FEB Sent Letter Previously Confirming No CCA
FEB Exceedingly polite three-page letter (with two-page appendix) from Moorcroft! (with some grammar corkers): We confirm your account has been amended to ensure NO telephone calls and NO visits while contact is maintained in writing as you have suggested. We stress that it is certainly not our intention to harass any member of the public with our contact at our client's request ... ["any member of the public"?? Like a random shopper in the high street?]. // Our records show that we have providided [sic] you with our client's response advising that due to the age of this account our client would be unable to provide this documentation for you [and very nice of you to put it in writing for me again, thank you very much!].// We feel it prudent at this point to bring to you attention the following information: In relation to the validity of a debt, it is our understanding that the Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed blah unenforceablity [I can't for the life of me think what the Information Commissioner has to do with this?]. // Account will remain on hold for 28 days to give you an opportunity to respond. Should we receive no further contact within the 28 days we believe it is sensible to close this account on our systems and return this account back to our client.
APR Letter from CapQuest: Your Halifax account has been referred to CapQuest to manage in all matters relating to collection, which may include personal visits by doorstep collection agency and possible litigation. If you are not in a position to settle account in full contact us blah etc.
APR Sent Letter to CapQuest Previously Confirming No CCA
APR Letter from CapQuest: Further to your recent contact and request for further info, account is now on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain information required. // If you have any proof of payments or correspondence that would assist with your query, please forward these documents to our Collections Administration dept.
APR Letter from CapQuest: We thank you for your correspondence and respond as follows: we can confirm we have requested a copy of the agreement from our client
JUL Letter from Halifax: As we haven't been able to agree to a suitable repayment plan, we've transferred your Halifax credit card to a debt collection agency, Robinson Way. We've instructed Robinson Way to arrange collection of the outstanding amount.
JUL Letter from Robinson Way: FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT // Our client has authorised us to recover full amount. If you don't we may advise our client to start court action. If this, then that; unpaid debts don't just go away, blah etc.
JUL 2012 Sent Letter to Robinson Way Previously Confirming No CCA
2013
JUL 2013 Letter from CapQuest: Welcome to Capquest. We're now looking after your account. Capquest will now manage your account that has been sold by Halifax to Capquest Investments Ltd (this is the first I've heard of it). We need to discuss your account. We'd like to work with you to reach a payment arrangement [...] Capquest Investments Ltd is now the data controller of your personal information that is held on your account. If you want to see the personal information about you that we hold, please write to us sending us £10 as the fee that we may charge under the Data Protection Act. blah etc. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.
AUG Letter from CapQuest: We refer to our recent letter. As legal owners of this account, we are able to obtain regular updated from credit reference agencies regarding your current financial position. We use this data to evaluate what steps should be taken to get your account into a paying status. We will use financial updates from CRAs in conjunction with other factors in determining our recovery strategy, which may include legal action. // Alternatively [...] you do not have to pay the full balance immediately; we will work with you to agree an acceptable arrangement. [...] We will need you to contact us within the next 14 days to discuss the opportunities further.
AUG Sent Letter to Capquest Previously Confirming No CCA
AUG Letter from CapQuest: As you will now be aware your account is being processed for legal action. Your account has been selected for a one-time solution to settle your account (pay 70% of total in instalments). This offer will remain open for 10 days. If at any time you find yourself in difficultly, and you will not be able to make a scheduled payment, telephone us and we will reschedule your account without penalty. If, however, you fail in your commitment without good cause or reason the offer will be withdrawn. // We hope that you seriously consider this proposal. Yours sincerely, Capquest [i.e. not a named person]
SEP Letter from CapQuest: Further to your recent contact, your account is on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain the info required.
OCT Letter from CapQuest: Please find enclosed copy document(s) as requested [Copy of application form enclosed but no terms]. If you are not currently repaying this account on arrangement, it is now imperative that you deal with this matter immediately by sending your payment directly to us. // We have placed your account on hold for seven days. If we do not receive contact from you by this date your account will be passed to our Collections department for further action. Signed, "Collections Administration".
OCT Sent Letter to Capquest Missing Prescribed Terms
OCT Letter from CapQuest: We regret that you have been dissatisfied with our service
NOV Letter from CapQuest: We apologise for the delay in dealing with your complaint
NOV Letter from CapQuest: A copy of the agreement was sent to you in October and I enclose a further copy. Statements and terms & conditions have been requested from the original creditor and your account will remain on hold until we receive these documents. We appreciate that you believe the agreement is unenforceable, however it is likely you would have received a copy of the agreement when your credit card was issued. You would have had every opportunity to raise any issues with the OC that you may have had in relation to the agreement at that time. // Please be advised that the copy of the agreement may refer to the prescribed terms for your account; however it is sufficient for you to be provided with a copy of the full T&Cs upon signing the agreement [?]. Also, the documents you request do not need to be provided on a single piece of paper to constitute a single document. [Copy of signed application form with scratchy T&Cs on back enclosed]
2014
MAR Letter from CapQuest: Letter containing bunch of unformatted statements and T&Cs. and "Please contact our Collections department to arrange suitable method of payment. Account on hold for 30 days to allow you time to contact us regarding repayment".
APR Sent CCA request to Capquest
APR Response from CapQuest: Letter containing signed application form and original terms (no "current" terms included). Also bunch of statements (weirdly formatted) and going back way before default. Covering letter states "Please call us to discuss payment options on this account".
Here's a colour-coded(!) rundown of what has been sent when:
Jan 2012: OC sent copy of signed application form, current and original T&Cs. Niddy said
Oct 2013: Capquest (new owner of debt) sent a copy of signed application form* only
Mar 2014: Capquest sent current* and original* T&Cs, and strangely formatted statements (but no copy of the application form).
Apr 2014: Capquest sent original* T&Cs, signed application form* and strangely formatted statements (but no copy of the "current" terms).
* same as provided by OC in Jan 2012
Essentially, despite these various permutations of what has been sent, this is as confirmed by Niddy. They haven't got heavy just yet, saying just: "Please contact us to discuss payment options". Once I've gone out of their correspondence and admin dept's in-tray, I'd hope it would get chucked onto the DCA merry-go-round. I'm tempted to wait to see what they send next and indeed what the tone of that is. Other suggestions and advice as welcome as ever though!
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