Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 01/2020]

[jadex]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

a useless already ruled illegal application form.

being no expert myself but isn't term "illegal" apply to criminal law?
aren't things "unlawful" in civil matters?

can any expert confirm (or deny) it?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

being no expert myself but isn't term "illegal" apply to criminal law?
aren't things "unlawful" in civil matters?

can any expert confirm (or deny) it?

Illegal:
–adjective
1.
forbidden by law or statute.
2.
contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations.

[garlok]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Thanks AC,

However if you wish jadex in legal speak,

"transgression of any ordinance of the land"

regards
Garlok

[diddlydee]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

then then then finally

I think I'll have Garlok as my defence in court (should I ever need one) cos I think everyone will just give in and let me win!

[Susie]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

then then then finally

I think I'll have Garlok as my defence in court (should I ever need one) cos I think everyone will just give in and let me win!

You put into words what I was thinking!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

being no expert myself but isn't term "illegal" apply to criminal law?
aren't things "unlawful" in civil matters?

My take on this is that when dealing with civil law and specifically dealing with consumer related stuff, we use the term unlawful. It's not necessarily illegal (in the sense we relate to the word illegal) what they are doing, its more unlawful.

Good example, at work it could be classed as illegal to download porn, however they say it is gross misconduct to classify it. At the pub, they say it is illegal to serve alcohol after a certain time (which it would be as it has been passed as a law) however your bank writing to you to repay debt ignoring OFT would be unlawful, again to correctly classify it as they have only breached standards/guidance - they have not broken a law per se

[garlok]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Niddy,

Where do you stand on the basis of no compliant paperwork being held by a creditor in contravention of the Statute Law embodied within CCA1974/2006 and the Statutory Instruments of the 1983 regulations and the copies of Docs regulations?

Breach of Statute Law has to be illegal. Statute cannot even be overturned by the Supreme Court.

Secondly, we have a raft of legislation daily being contravened by the DCAs AND their legal people. daily we have the Tort of Trespass and aggravated trespass (criminal at this point) section 1 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1998, section 40 of the Adminstration of Justice Act 1970 and Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Merely unlawful? Its a bit like the argument about should and shall, Oxford English Dictionary defines one as the other. So much confusion exists over this that Statutory legislation often contains definitions of these words and the weight to be attached to each. As I seem to remember in the 1974 Act these definitions do not appear hence section 127 carries more weight.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Niddy,

Where do you stand on the basis of no compliant paperwork being held by a creditor in contravention of the Statute Law embodied within CCA1974/2006 and the Statutory Instruments of the 1983 regulations and the copies of Docs regulations?

Breach of Statute Law has to be illegal. Statute cannot even be overturned by the Supreme Court.

Secondly, we have a raft of legislation daily being contravened by the DCAs AND their legal people. daily we have the Tort of Trespass and aggravated trespass (criminal at this point) section 1 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1998, section 40 of the Adminstration of Justice Act 1970 and Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Merely unlawful? Its a bit like the argument about should and shall, Oxford English Dictionary defines one as the other. So much confusion exists over this that Statutory legislation often contains definitions of these words and the weight to be attached to each. As I seem to remember in the 1974 Act these definitions do not appear hence section 127 carries more weight.

regards
Garlok

Hiya

Ok what you're getting at is the more in-depth versions as you're delving deep into the doldrums of the CCA and associated acts! My opinion (which is all it is remember) is that yes, when you are in direct breach of statute then yes it would be construed as illegal but at the point we deal with (daily) on our forum, failure to comply with a CCA request or just sending random junk and messing you about always needs to be referred to as unlawful as the moment you mention illegal, you're making a claim as to your position against that company in question (i.e how would you react if I said you're acting illegally? You'd probably say "prove it"..) If however I said you were behaving in an unlawful manner it's harder for you to ask the same, considering unlawful covers a multitude of things.

So, to elaborate I personally tend to use the word unlawful in general letters crossing to illegal if and when we prepare court papers....

[garlok]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Thats fine Niddy. I thought that a few notes on the subject would provide a little more clarification for those starting out on these things and often clarity comes from "straight talking"

Thanks
regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Friendly bump back to the top!

[Henryhatter]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Niddy, I am new here. Just registered today, but followed you sometime ago on another site. The reason being I had been made redundant and was looking at all the options as to what to do with my debts (credit cards, loans). Since then, I decided to see if I could cope by living off credit whilst I looked for other work. I did find a few different jobs and was able to pay my bills but continued to use the credit to live on. As would be expected, I am now reaching the end of my credit and have decided to go with the UE route. The reason being - I don't want to lose my house. My OH works and so we are able to pay basics such as mortgage, CT, etc etc and food. However, there wouldn't be much left for any payment plans! I think most of my CC agreements were prior to 2007 but cannot be sure if all are. I was thinking of claiming on the ppi thingy, but not sure if I can do that, whilst starting this route. I am trying to find my way around this site, and will start a diary as soon as I get to grips with how to do that. Thanks to you and your volunteers in advance.

[Deepie]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Niddy, I am new here. Just registered today, but followed you sometime ago on another site. The reason being I had been made redundant and was looking at all the options as to what to do with my debts (credit cards, loans). Since then, I decided to see if I could cope by living off credit whilst I looked for other work. I did find a few different jobs and was able to pay my bills but continued to use the credit to live on. As would be expected, I am now reaching the end of my credit and have decided to go with the UE route. The reason being - I don't want to lose my house. My OH works and so we are able to pay basics such as mortgage, CT, etc etc and food. However, there wouldn't be much left for any payment plans! I think most of my CC agreements were prior to 2007 but cannot be sure if all are. I was thinking of claiming on the ppi thingy, but not sure if I can do that, whilst starting this route. I am trying to find my way around this site, and will start a diary as soon as I get to grips with how to do that. Thanks to you and your volunteers in advance.

Have a look here >Unenforceability Diaries - Read me First!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Niddy, I am new here. Just registered today, but followed you sometime ago on another site. The reason being I had been made redundant and was looking at all the options as to what to do with my debts (credit cards, loans). Since then, I decided to see if I could cope by living off credit whilst I looked for other work. I did find a few different jobs and was able to pay my bills but continued to use the credit to live on. As would be expected, I am now reaching the end of my credit and have decided to go with the UE route. The reason being - I don't want to lose my house. My OH works and so we are able to pay basics such as mortgage, CT, etc etc and food. However, there wouldn't be much left for any payment plans! I think most of my CC agreements were prior to 2007 but cannot be sure if all are. I was thinking of claiming on the ppi thingy, but not sure if I can do that, whilst starting this route. I am trying to find my way around this site, and will start a diary as soon as I get to grips with how to do that. Thanks to you and your volunteers in advance.

Have a look here >Unenforceability Diaries - Read me First!

See here ---> HenryHatter's UE Diary

[Aile5]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi NID
Havent been on for a while, as have been away but have come back to a letter from Westcot. My last letter to them was account sold in dispute, they have now said after speaking with their client HBOS that they have stated all info wast sent to me in Nov 2009, I need to pay within 14 days or a/c being passed back to collections again. This is the 3rd DCA. What letter should I send now? Thanks again

Aile5

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi NID
Havent been on for a while, as have been away but have come back to a letter from Westcot. My last letter to them was account sold in dispute, they have now said after speaking with their client HBOS that they have stated all info wast sent to me in Nov 2009, I need to pay within 14 days or a/c being passed back to collections again. This is the 3rd DCA. What letter should I send now? Thanks again

Aile5

Nothing - see what they do next.

Ignore