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  • Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 01/2020]

    Help with Unenforceability

    This is the shared discussion for people to post any questions, that do not want to have their own diary thread. It would be used for the odd random question that doesn't form part of a long term strategy - however if things change and you end up posting more frequently, we'll automatically move the posts to your own diary thread so don't worry, you won't go wrong.

    If you do decide to start a diary, then simply Start a New Thread.

    Most importantly, have fun and relax a little - we're all here, whether in the same boat as you or to help, we do not judge! If anyone gives you any abuse whatsoever please PM anyone from the site team and we'll deal with it swiftly and severely.

    What is Unenforceability?

    The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) & Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) set terms for financial agreements and products such as credit cards, loans, hire purchases, mortgages and other forms of borrowing. These regulations included important items that made the agreement legal and sound. Yet despite these laws, many banks did not include all the important parts within the paperwork meaning if your loan, credit card, catalogue or higher purchase finance was offered, or agreed to, with a faulty contract or disclosure the bank may not be able to enforce the agreement. Unfortunately overdrafts, mobile phones & utilities are exempt from the CCA1974 and so cannot be considered for unenforceability.

    What is this thread about?

    There are still lots of myths regards to unenforceability and whether 'you can get your debt wiped' (or words to that effect!). The bottom line is that if you have a credit product, from before April 2007, and the Original Creditor (OC) or Debt Collection Agency (DCA) has already defaulted you then it does no harm whatsoever to apply for your Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) to check whether it is lawful. If you've not yet been defaulted and have a sound credit file, then this may not be the best route for you as a default is almost inevitable, and permitted within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

    What will the advice on thread do for me?

    The advice offered will allow you to request your CCA and check whether it is compliant with the strict criteria set down by parliament (the Act). If it does comply, then you would simply agree to a repayment plan, or fall back to your original plan of more formal action such as a B/R Petition or the like. However if it does not, then you may claim unenforceability which means that the debt, although it will exist, cannot be pursued through the courts.

    What about the positives?

    There are plenty of positives as to what may happen once you consider unenforceability, the main one being that you cease payments to the debt. The lender can and will chase you for repayment (McGuffick v RBS 2009), however whilst the account remains in default (unenforceable), the OC or DCA have their hands tied meaning they cannot obtain a court judgment against you. These include a CCJ or Charging Order.

    What about the negatives?

    There will always be downsides, as well as upsides, no matter what you decide to do. The only person that knows if following this advice is suitable is you - the debtor. Once you've read the first few posts of this thread and decided you wish to proceed then advice will be forthcoming, so long as you are prepared for the barrage of calls, nasty threats and defaults registered against you.

    Remember unenforceability is not a get out of paying your debts technique, it is a last resort before considering more formal action, such as Bankruptcy, IVA or DRO.

    Next Steps...

    If you're ready to tackle your debts, and consider the unenforceability route then simply post a reply to this message or start your own diary over in the Unenforceability Diaries section.
    Last edited by Never-In-Doubt; 24 June 2017, 16:00.
    I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

    If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

  • #2
    Re: Help with Unenforceability

    Hi Nid hope you are well. ;Hi1

    I have a slightly off topic on a different account, its an account opened 2008 which I had sent a SAR for in May to get charges. I had forgotten all about it as it was a smallish balance but it has defaulted and I have DCA's on it.

    Saturday out of the blue and about 6 weeks late I received the SAR which was shocking to the degree that it had copies of statements and a scan of a letter I had written asking for reduced payments and nothing else. No screen shots or anything.

    On there letter they wrote, and I quote:

    "Unfortunately after an extensive search we have been unable to locate the account opening documentation relating to this account. I hope you will accept my apologies for the inconvenience this has caused"


    I know you cant use the unenforceablity in the standard way but did I read that you had done so with HSBC at some time?, cant find the post. What is likely to happen if I put the account in dispute on the strength of what they have said in the letter?.

    Sorry if this post confuses the rest of the site and do feel free to move or delete but i'd appreciate a straight Nid style answer. ;30

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help with Unenforceability

      Originally posted by BigCraigJohn
      It was 2008 hence why I was very unsure, as it seems a bit of a grey area post 2007 or whenever the rules changes. It is defaulted.
      That's fine they still need to be able to prove that you had agreed to the terms, in any case they should have sent a recon - the fact they never makes it more interesting...

      I'd just ignore them and refuse to pay, well i'm saying that is what i'd do - not saying it is best for everyone.... but worth noting. ;Hmm

      Hiya nice to see you and welcome!

      Ok is this HSBC you're talking about? When dud u take the account out and what type of account was it? Also have u defaulted or is it up to date? Are you in debt/defaulted elsewhere?

      Reason i ask, they confirmed no a/c paperwork meaning it's unenforceable - 100% and their letter is proof lol. A recon is useless cos they said they ain't got it meaning they can never prove you agreed to any of their terms.

      Post back details and also tell me what you're wanting from this and I'll advise better suited matey.

      Cheers.
      I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

      If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help with Unenforceability

        Hi NID, I went down the unenforceability route a few months ago with barclaycard. They have past the account on to a DCA and i have been getting letters and phone calls constantly from them over the last few months. The reason for this post is because I still have a bank account with barclays which at the time I wasnt really using much. Recently I had some money paid into the bank account and I have received this letter from barclaycard:-
        .................................................. .......................
        Dear (Me)

        We are writing to advise you that, as your account is in arrears, we have carried out our legal right to set off an amount from your credit balance in your Barclays current account against part of the outstanding arrears owing on your Barclaycard account. There are still arrears outstanding on your account and we request that you contact us as soon as possible to discuss recent payment.

        We will update your Credit Reference Agency Data to reflect this recent payment, and once the arrears are paid we will also ensure that your payment history is updated.

        We will only exercise our legal right to set off when payments have been missed and the account is being run outside of the terms and conditions of use. If you feel a Direct Debit would help you avoid this situation in the future then please contact this office and we can arrange this for you.
        .................................................. .................

        im not really sure what to do?

        hope you can help and thanks for your help in the past

        wibble

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help with Unenforceability

          Originally posted by never-in-doubt
          Originally posted by BigCraigJohn
          It was 2008 hence why I was very unsure, as it seems a bit of a grey area post 2007 or whenever the rules changes. It is defaulted.
          That's fine they still need to be able to prove that you had agreed to the terms, in any case they should have sent a recon - the fact they never makes it more interesting...

          I'd just ignore them and refuse to pay, well i'm saying that is what i'd do - not saying it is best for everyone.... but worth noting. ;Hmm
          I hear ya and tbh I have nothing to lose now.
          Lets just say they further down the line they were to produce something, would I then be in a position where I could make them prove that they were the original and not something they had made up?, after all they have now told me they dont have anything and "extensive" says to me somoene has dug pretty deep.
          I guess this is the danger with online applications, if a disk become corrupt or someone bins the wrong one that can leave them with some serious probs.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help with Unenforceability

            Originally posted by wibble
            im not really sure what to do?
            Sorry, you've lost the money that went it. RoSo is legal and above board, you should have closed that account. They will keep doing it until the arrears are clear so cease all payments. If it was wages or the like you can ask employer to claw it back and the bank will have to refund it, but otherwise sorry.....

            benefits and proof of hardship are other factors that deny a lender RoSo rules....
            I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

            If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help with Unenforceability

              Okay thanks, its my fault I know, stupid mistake. I also have a joint account with my other half, again not used much, can they touch that if there is money in it?

              Thanks again

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help with Unenforceability

                Hi Nid.

                Deleted because I found the other thread.

                P.s. Good to see you, was missing you on the other board. ;K5

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help with Unenforceability

                  Originally posted by wibble
                  Okay thanks, its my fault I know, stupid mistake. I also have a joint account with my other half, again not used much, can they touch that if there is money in it?

                  Thanks again
                  Yea get everything emptied lol.... you never ever stay with the same bank you owe money to!! ;EEK
                  I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                  If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help with Unenforceability

                    Originally posted by Wicca303
                    Hi Nid.

                    Deleted because I found the other thread.

                    P.s. Good to see you, was missing you on the other board. ;K5
                    thanks - nice to see you here.... ;Hi
                    I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                    If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help with Unenforceability

                      Hi NID
                      Quick query. Sent off the letter to DCA stating that a/c was in dispute with OC as no agreement received. They have ignored my letter and sent me one saying that within the next 5 days my a/c will have further action taken against it in the form of a) door to door collector or b)possible court action etc. What should i send now? thanks v much ;P-;

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help with Unenforceability

                        Originally posted by Aile5
                        Hi NID
                        Quick query. Sent off the letter to DCA stating that a/c was in dispute with OC as no agreement received. They have ignored my letter and sent me one saying that within the next 5 days my a/c will have further action taken against it in the form of a) door to door collector or b)possible court action etc. What should i send now? thanks v much ;P-;
                        hiya

                        send this: ---> viewtopic.php?p=2316#p2316
                        I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                        If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help with Unenforceability

                          Hi again NID,

                          Sent off the letter you suggested, they have now ignored my last 2 letters and I have today received a letter through of - notice of intended court action, stating formal notice is hereby given and papers are now being prepared to seek a judgement against me. What should I do now do you think? Thanks ;EEK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help with Unenforceability

                            Originally posted by Aile5
                            Hi again NID,

                            Sent off the letter you suggested, they have now ignored my last 2 letters and I have today received a letter through of - notice of intended court action, stating formal notice is hereby given and papers are now being prepared to seek a judgement against me. What should I do now do you think? Thanks ;EEK
                            Send the template below - special delivery (i know it costs more but you need them to see it) and enclose a copy of your last 2 letters that went ignored, then add a part on the main template (below) advising that they are ignoring you and as such they are in default and you welcome any court action - make sure you put it in the top line!!

                            Send this: ---> viewtopic.php?p=2319#p2319
                            I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                            If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help with Unenforceability

                              Thanks NID

                              Will get it posted tomorrow.

                              Comment

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