Landlord with a Section 21.

[nick0]

Hi All,
I have been renting a property for 2.5 years and never missed any payments never had any major
work done and in fact been a great tenant(says me).

Yesterday I get a solicitors letter saying the owners of my property are using a section 21 form (was enclosed)
to remove me from the property.I don't know the solicitors and also the company requesting possession as the
name is different then the one on my AST which was originally for 6 months.

Now there is another issue here. On the 5th I was at work and I had a special Delivery card through my door so
knowing I am off today (and sorting office is a nightmare) I have chosen to get it re-delivered today 7th.When I
checked the tracking number and where it came from BINGO it's the same area as the letter I received yesterday
on normal post(the Section 21) .Now the reason I know it's the same thing is that the name on the document is
my partners and that is the only thing she has at this address.The letter arrived earlier and it is the same.

The section 21 is dated two months from 6th July, so If I hadn't received the standard post I would of in fact officialy
received the special delivery one this morning the 7th, The letting agents know I work so that would explain why I was not
home on the 5th.

I rent this property from a large UK letting company and I emailed them to ask if they had sent me any letters and
I got a rapid reply saying NO.


Having checked the Land registry it seems a different investment company took over my property
and others 8 months ago so they are the legal owners.

Now as I am a perfect tenant I want to make sure they have acted properly.

1. I rent this property through a UK rental Agent, they had no knowledge or sent me any correspondence.
2. I had no notification of a change of landlord 8 months earlier.
3. If I receive the Section 21 today (special delivery) that is less than 2 months.
4. As my tenancy was in a different company name is the Section 21 enforceable.

Also am I correct in thinking that once the two months are up I can say I am not moving and they will
have to go to the county court to get an order for me to vacate, that process should give me an extra
couple of months to find somewhere.

Cheers

Nick

[Joanna Connolly]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Is your tenancy fixed term (i.e renewed very six months or yearly) or is it periodic (no fixed end date ?

[nick0]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Hi,
It was just a six months agreement then rolling.

Nick

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Also am I correct in thinking that once the two months are up I can say I am not moving and they will
have to go to the county court to get an order for me to vacate, that process should give me an extra
couple of months to find somewhere.

I think the issue here is not can your Landlord get you out, it's when can your Landlord get you out.

Now that your fixed term has ended you are a statutory periodic tenant. If your rent it paid monthly the Landlord must give you two calendar month's notice served on or before your 'rent due' date. (You only have to give one month's notice.)

The s.21 Notice may well be defective if they've got the names and dates wrong but they can put that right and send you another one.

Maybe before you run forensics over the paperwork you need decide what you want from this situation. It sounds like you want more time to move to somewhere else. So why not contact your letting agent to see if you can agree a mutually convenient 'out' date. If you consider renting again through the same agent see if they can find you your next home so everything dovetails nicely.

What you also need to know is why does the Landlord want you to leave. If they are planning to sell the property they will have to offer it with vacant possession hence the s.21 Notice which is the start of the legal process. But they're unlikely to find a buyer and do all the conveyancing stuff in eight weeks. If this is the case then the Landlord might be happy for you to say there paying rent while a buyer is found. The s.21 Notice is to protect his legal position because that has to be served before a court can grant possession etc.

Or it could be that a family member etc wants to move into the property which could be flexible. Or it could be that they are planning major renovations etc. None of this is your business of course, but it does help to know what you are dealing with.

You're right to say that if you want to stay there you cannot be removed without a court order. The Landlord would have to start possession proceedings but that can't be done before the date stated on the s.21 Notice. It'll probably be a couple of months before a hearing date, and then even if possession is granted there could be another 42 days before the court says you have to leave. Then if you don't go on that date the Landlord will have to apply to the court for a bailiffs' warrant, and so on.

However if you plan to continue renting you will need a reference from your Landlord or the agent on their behalf. So it may be wise to do everything by co-operation rather than confrontation.

The big question is have you paid a deposit and has it been placed in a Government backed scheme and were you sent all the prescribed terms at the start of your tenancy? If not, then you've got leverage.

Plan B x

[nick0]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Hi PlanB,
Thanks for the reply, I contacted the agents and as soon as they realised I knew about the S.21 notice there attitude
changed. They have told me verbally (I have requested it in writing) that the landlords as part of there strategic asset management
programme want to sell the property.The landlords are an investment company.I did ask about staying till sold and they said
it was not possible,I am in an apartment and there is one that is empty and has not been marketed.

When I moved here I chose the property because the estate agent said it was owned by a company and as I was looking for
a five year stay (son gone to Uni then), this would be my best option.

The fact that it is now owned by another company without my knowledge I see as sly.

I am not bothered about references, my deposit (is held correctly) would probably take an age to get back and even then
I am sure they will try and say I have done this and that and stuff needs fixing etc and I would not get it all back without a fight.

My circumstances are that I don't trust the agents as they never told me that this investment company was my landlord, what I
would like to do is stop paying my rent "build up a deposit"stay here for a few months then leave.

Now some people may say that is not right but in my eyes for the 2.5 years I have been here I have done everything by the book and
been a model tenant. I could not afford to pay the rent and save for a deposit so this seems my only option.

The landlords solicitors haven't even had the manners to give me an stamped addressed envelope to return a signed copy of the S.21 form.

Cheers

Nick

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

I don't trust the agents as they never told me that this investment company was my landlord, what I
would like to do is stop paying my rent "build up a deposit"stay here for a few months then leave.

Now some people may say that is not right but in my eyes for the 2.5 years I have been here I have done everything by the book and
been a model tenant. I could not afford to pay the rent and save for a deposit so this seems my only option.

Your Landlord is the person named on your tenancy agreement unless you've been served a notice to say different.

Withholding rent is a high risk strategy. It may ease your cashflow in the short term but your Landlord can still chase you for it through the county court (CCJ) after you've left the property. If you stay after the date on your s.21 Notice (if it's valid) then rent arrears won't help you in court if your Landlord seeks a possession order.

It's not uncommon for Tenants to tell the Landlord (or their agent) to use the deposit to cover the last month's rent if they're worried that the deposit may not get returned promptly or have spurious deductions. Check your AST for a clause which might say the deposit cannot be used for rent purposes.

I can see how you're feeling peeved at being asked to move out when you've been a perfect tenant, but sadly the law isn't on your side once the fixed term has ended because a Landlord has the right to do what they like with their property.

To avoid this happening again ask for a 36 month tenancy agreement which is the maximum for an AST. You can add a break clause so you can escape sooner at any agreed date. However that works both ways so the Landlord can get you out early if there's a break clause. There's no reason for a limit of 6 months only. That's the minimum not the maximum.

Plan B x

[nick0]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Hi,
Thanks for the info PlanB, The Landlord named on my Agreement is not the same as the S.21 name and I
have never received any notice to say different.

All I am concerned with is staying in the property and saving up the rent, The damage they could do to my credit file
is not an issue and CCJ's would be joining a long que at the address.

When I move my next project will begin.

Now I know where I stand I can focus on what is next.

Once again thanks for your help.

Nick

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

My circumstances are that I don't trust the agents as they never told me that this investment company was my landlord, what I
would like to do is stop paying my rent "build up a deposit"stay here for a few months then leave.

Now some people may say that is not right but in my eyes for the 2.5 years I have been here I have done everything by the book and
been a model tenant. I could not afford to pay the rent and save for a deposit so this seems my only option.

Unless anything has changed your Landlord wants possession of the property in a couple of weeks (your Section 21 Notice was dated 5th July?).

Have you stopped paying rent as planned which means your Landlord can/will issue a summons for possession which will be followed by a Warrant for Eviction?

If you are two months in arrears with your rent the Landlord can seek possession under Ground 8 where a possession Order is mandatory not discretionary. This would be added to section 21 which gives the Landlord the right to take back a property once the fixed term has expired.

Fingers crossed you've negotiated something with the letting agent to sidestep the problem.

Plan B x

[nick0]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Hi Plan B,
Yes I did stop paying rent and the section 21 will come into force on 5th September.I have had one letter
from the landlords agents (whom didn't even tell me I was being asked to leave) asking for the rent to be paid.

From reading reviews on sites I have decided to write to the Landlords solicitors a few days before 5th September telling
them I will leave the property in superb condition on 15th October. If they wish to apply to the court for a CCJ it makes
no difference as I would still get to that date at the earliest before a court would then give me time to leave (28 days).

Due to the setup I have (I cannot elaborate) all I am concerned with is time to get out under my own steam.

Nick

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Yes I did stop paying rent . . . . From reading reviews on sites I have decided to write to the Landlords solicitors a few days before 5th September telling them I will leave the property in superb condition on 15th October. If they wish to apply to the court for a CCJ it makes no difference as I would still get to that date at the earliest before a court would then give me time to leave (28 days).

Fair enough.

As long as you are aware that any money judgement (as a result of a possession order for rent arrears) will show as a CCJ on your CRA file.

Having said that you seem not to be bothered by this potential blemish.

The damage they could do to my credit file is not an issue and CCJ's would be joining a long que at the address.

Plan B x

[nick0]

Re: Landlord with a Section 21.

Plan B,
As I said in my first post all I was bothered about is time, the situation with the name on the address is totally irrelevant.

Cheers

Nick