Problem with your car?

[oscar]

Re: Problem with your car?

Appreciate that Allan, I am not in the habit of just pulling things apart. Destroying then through frustration is another thing! I am fairly sure the servo is ok, and a couple of people, more minded than me have said this also. I haven't as yet bled the brakes again, but will do so tomorrow and see how that fairs.

Problem with local garages round here is (well, we only have one or two) which either employ idiots or are rip off prices!!

I found THIS on fleabay. I have no intentions of buying, just using as a demonstration, and to answer a query. The rubber "cover" on the right - is this vitally important, ie a seal, or is this a dust cover? - This is what is split on the inside of the car behind the pedal. Not suggesting this is the problem of course.

Apreciate I am being a complete and utter pain in the arse here!! But if it isnt this, and doesnt work after bleeding the brakes, then its either going to the garage, or down the road with a gallon of fuel (but then that would be a waste of £7!! )

[caspar]

Re: Problem with your car?

Am I right in thinking that to check the servo you can pump the brake pedal with the engine off until it's really solid, then keep your foot on the brake and start the engine. If the servo's OK you should feel the pedal move gently away from you.

[alland]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oscar, as i mentioned in an earlier post, if the diaphragm/ seals in the servo have gone, then fluid could leak into it and you will not see any leak.
The way the servo is mounted on the bulkhead can be either bolts showing on the outside of bulkhead in the engine bay, or bolted through the bulkhead with the bolts on the inside up behind the dash.

As I said before, don't go pulling it all apart until you have confimed it is the servo causing the problem. If you have now reached a point where you are not really sure and not getting anywhere with it, maybe it's time to take it in to a local garage.

[oscar]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oscar I would say the "Armpit Fart" may suggest the diaphragm in the servo is feked !

But without actually being in a position to personally examine it, I am only making assumptions based on what you describe, so don't take it as gospel and go ripping the thing apart until you are really sure of the problem.

Lovely. Thats a nice big job I didnt want! ..... but would this also account for loss of fluid?.

How easyt is the servo unit to replace? - it looks like its a fixed unit (to the bulkhead) and I cant see any bolts holding it on

[oscar]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oldish Vauxhall Corsa (not mine, btw, the stepson's)

Started ok one morning, drove to my house & parked, went back to start it 10 mins later - engine/starting motor not turning!

Fuses have been checked & ok.

Lights, instrument warning lights, indicators, windscreen wipers etc all ok.

Just in case, car battery has been charged (many hours).

Also, tried jump-starting - zilch!

Someone has suggested 'relay switch' - are they the ones handily located above the fuses, positioned so that you have to wreck half the dashboard to access them.
If so, which one?

Someone else also mentioned an immobiliser, & something about a 'chip' in the ignition key - ?? (it's a POC Corsa, for goodness sake!!)
(I haven't got the key here to check it)
If so, is this a 'Vauxhall garage only' job?

Any advice would be muchly appreciated!

Totally different car, but I had this on a fiesta. I managed, purely by chance to find it was a loose wire (on the coil I think, but could have been the starter) - there was enough of a connection to get ignition lights, but nothing else. I know when the ignition was turned on and if you "wiggled" it, you could hear a clicking noise as the electrics went on and off.

[charitynjw]

Re: Problem with your car?

Cheers, alland, you're a diamond!!

[alland]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oldish Vauxhall Corsa (not mine, btw, the stepson's)

Started ok one morning, drove to my house & parked, went back to start it 10 mins later - engine/starting motor not turning!

Fuses have been checked & ok.

Lights, instrument warning lights, indicators, windscreen wipers etc all ok.

Just in case, car battery has been charged (many hours).

Also, tried jump-starting - zilch!

Someone has suggested 'relay switch' - are they the ones handily located above the fuses, positioned so that you have to wreck half the dashboard to access them.
If so, which one?

Someone else also mentioned an immobiliser, & something about a 'chip' in the ignition key - ?? (it's a POC Corsa, for goodness sake!!)
(I haven't got the key here to check it)
If so, is this a 'Vauxhall garage only' job?

Any advice would be muchly appreciated!

Ok first of all Corsa's have a reputation for dodgy electrics, so it could be anything from simply a sticking starter motor.

A couple of things to try to eliminate the immobilisor or the key transponder unit.

Put the car in second gear, handbrake off (IGNITION OFF) and try rocking it backwards and forwards to "free up" the starter motor, then try again to see if the car starts up.
If still not starting try and bump start it either by getting a hand or two to push start it or by towing it.
If it starts, then you have eliminated the immobiliser and ignition key transponder chip.
So it is down to either the starter motor or starter motor relay.

Either way, forget going to a main Vauxhall dealer, any decent auto electrician could sort it a lot cheaper.

[alland]

Re: Problem with your car?

Cheers Allan, was aware about repeat bleeding in some cases.

The air noise I think is coming form the rubber behind the brake pedal - like a conical rubber - like a CV boot i suppose by the feel of it (dont know how else to describe it. - thats where it sounds like - was starting to get dark when I looked!!

I suppose pressure is the wrong word as well - its like, an "armpit fart" - you know, put your hand under your armpit and flap like a chicken!

If I need the engine running, thats going to make the NSR fun to bleed!! - right next to the exhaust pipe ..... wonder if anywhere does a gas masks?!

Looks like I have a busy Saturday coming up! Suppose I should also say I have replaced the Master Cylinder (unit from breakers but all seals ok)

Oscar I would say the "Armpit Fart" may suggest the diaphragm in the servo is feked !

But without actually being in a position to personally examine it, I am only making assumptions based on what you describe, so don't take it as gospel and go ripping the thing apart until you are really sure of the problem.

[charitynjw]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oldish Vauxhall Corsa (not mine, btw, the stepson's)

Started ok one morning, drove to my house & parked, went back to start it 10 mins later - engine/starting motor not turning!

Fuses have been checked & ok.

Lights, instrument warning lights, indicators, windscreen wipers etc all ok.

Just in case, car battery has been charged (many hours).

Also, tried jump-starting - zilch!

Someone has suggested 'relay switch' - are they the ones handily located above the fuses, positioned so that you have to wreck half the dashboard to access them.
If so, which one?

Someone else also mentioned an immobiliser, & something about a 'chip' in the ignition key - ?? (it's a POC Corsa, for goodness sake!!)
(I haven't got the key here to check it)
If so, is this a 'Vauxhall garage only' job?

Any advice would be muchly appreciated!

[oscar]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oscar, on most ABS systems you need to have the engine running in order to open the ABS valves to allow successful bleeding of the system.

The worrying bit is the sound of air pressure near the bulkhead, this could simply be air still in the system, because you are not purging the ABS unit enough. Or it could be the servo/ master cylinder unit failed. (not hard to replace, but you do need to identify the problem before spending money on something that possibly isn't broken !)

Remember, It can take quite a a bit of repeat bleeding to completely clear the system.

Cheers Allan, was aware about repeat bleeding in some cases.

The air noise I think is coming form the rubber behind the brake pedal - like a conical rubber - like a CV boot i suppose by the feel of it (dont know how else to describe it. - thats where it sounds like - was starting to get dark when I looked!!

I suppose pressure is the wrong word as well - its like, an "armpit fart" - you know, put your hand under your armpit and flap like a chicken!

If I need the engine running, thats going to make the NSR fun to bleed!! - right next to the exhaust pipe ..... wonder if anywhere does a gas masks?!

Looks like I have a busy Saturday coming up! Suppose I should also say I have replaced the Master Cylinder (unit from breakers but all seals ok)

[alland]

Re: Problem with your car?

Oscar, on most ABS systems you need to have the engine running in order to open the ABS valves to allow successful bleeding of the system.

The worrying bit is the sound of air pressure near the bulkhead, this could simply be air still in the system, because you are not purging the ABS unit enough. Or it could be the servo/ master cylinder unit failed. (not hard to replace, but you do need to identify the problem before spending money on something that possibly isn't broken !)

Remember, It can take quite a a bit of repeat bleeding to completely clear the system.

[oscar]

Re: Problem with your car?

Ok allan, after more advice!

Have bleed the brakes, in the order NSR, OSR, NSF, OSF. I still do not have a brake. If I pump the brake (with engine running) I can get one load of brake pressure. Have double checked the nipples and there is no seepage so these are tight.

This might sound like a stupid question, but do you need the engine runnng when bleeding (for the ABS unit) as opposed to the ignition just being fully on.

Dont know if this makes a difference, and unsure if I have mentioned this previously or not, but I can hear air (like when you squeeze your palms together) - this appears to be coming from the rubber on the inner bulkhead behind the brake pedal.

If the servo does need replacing (which I cant see as I can get pressure with no ignition) are they difficult to replace?

..... Alternatively, if your up this neck of the woods next week

[alland]

Re: Problem with your car?

Going to hope Allan sees this before tomorrow afternoon.

Pretty sure its the master now.... 99% in fact. Whats the easiest way (if any) of removing excess fluid from the servo? (without taking it apart)

Can this be left to evaporate off at all?

Sorry caspar, only just spotted your post, always better to drop me a PM to direct me to a post, as I don't always notice them.

Ok as you say it is probably the master cylinder seals which will allow fluid to drain off into the servo via the diaphragm, there is no easy way of draining it off as the servo housing is a pressurised vacuum sealed unit (DO NOT ATTEMPT TO OPEN IT) some of the excess fluid in the servo will be sucked out by the air vacuum pipe that goes to the inlet manifold that works the servo assembly, it will then be burnt out with exhaust gases, so if some fluid remains in the servo housing as long as you are satisfied the brake line pressure is OK once you have replaced the master cylinder you should be good to go, if you struggle to get a firm brake pedal, you may have to replace the servo unit.

Good Luck.
Allan

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Problem with your car?

Going to hope Allan sees this before tomorrow afternoon.

Pretty sure its the master now.... 99% in fact. Whats the easiest way (if any) of removing excess fluid from the servo? (without taking it apart)

Can this be left to evaporate off at all?

PM mate lol. I've asked him to come look

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Problem with your car?

It wasnt a rejection, but I am not a master mechanic, neither do I have a lot of money. Personally, I do not see the point in replacing a part that is fully functional.

I expect you could exchange it, or buy a pre-used one from a breaker.