Greymatter's ue Diary

[greymatter]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Final one on my list at last:
Barclayloan

Type of account (Loan)

Date commenced (Approx 2000)

Approx Balance (£4500)

Last made a FULL payment (June 2003)
Paying by arrangement with DCA(CDCS)
Default Notice issued by Barclay(Feb 2004)
Account run by CDCS

No statement or balance issued since 2005

Hi Niddy/I2D
I left this until now to request CCA as I planned to phase all my CCA requests over the last 12+ months.Didn't want to overload the DCA/OC in one hit.

08/08/2012 CCA request sent this morning by special delivery
Greymatter

31/08/2012 Hi Niddy/I2D
The 12+2 days are up.Should I wait a bit longer before I cancel my monthly token payment.?
Also is there any real need before I do this to write and request a response to my CCA request?
Thanks
GM

[Paul.]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

31/08/2012 Hi Niddy/I2D
The 12+2 days are up.Should I wait a bit longer before I cancel my monthly token payment.?
Also is there any real need before I do this to write and request a response to my CCA request?
Thanks
GM

Im not sure thats something we can tell you to do

McGuffick confirmed that the debtor should not breach their contract due to s78 breach and to withhold payment is not good on grounds that there is a s78 breach

Remember the creditor can remedy a s78 breach at any time.

[greymatter]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Hi Paul
So they are now in default and what,I carry on with my payments.getting a bit confused here?
I am looking for guidance as to what is the norm here re advice in these circumstances.I realise that they can produce the PTs at some time in the future .
However they have not as yet sent my CCA details.How long do I wait before they are well outside of the time frame??
GM

[Paul.]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Hi Paul
So they are now in default and what,I carry on with my payments.getting a bit confused here?
I am looking for guidance as to what is the norm here re advice in these circumstances.I realise that they can produce the PTs at some time in the future .
However they have not as yet sent my CCA details.How long do I wait before they are well outside of the time frame??
GM

Its a decision that only you can make,

The law says when a creditor fails to comply with s78 he cannot enforce the agreement until he does.

The problem is that if you signed a compliant credit agreement ( i dont know if you did or did not, only you will know what you did sign) then the creditor may well be able to reconstitute the agreement for s78 purposes, and then produce the original copy to show the Court there was an agreement signed by you.

If you stop paying and they do this then sue you, it could get quite messy.

[Deepie]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

I Know what I would do............

[greymatter]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Ok Paul
So if they dont dig up a compliant credit agreement because its (1)Not signed or (2) they have lost/destroyed it .
How do I find out if they have an en CCA or not?
Isnt this what its all about??
GM

[Paul.]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Ok
So if they dont dig up a compliant credit agreement because its (1)Not signed or (2) they have lost/destroyed it .
How do I find out if they have an en CCA or not?
Isnt this what its all about??
GM

wouldnt it be nice if the law was easy?

Sadly it isnt, s78 was declared by HHJ Waksman as not being for proof of proper execution, but merely for information purposes to give the debtor information about his agreement.

Proper execution is a different proposition.

An agreement is improperly executed if

(prior to 6th April 2007) it did not contain the prescribed terms

was not signed by the debtor

breached schedule 1 of the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

etc

Out of that, there is two types of unenforceability that arise.

Firstly the breach which is subject to the Courts discretion under s127(1) and (2) Consumer Credit Act ie the Court could enforce subject to restrictions imposed by the Act

and the second is irredeemable unenforceability where the Court has no power to enforce for example there never was a signed agreement or the agreement signed did not contain the prescribed terms.

The difficulties arising out of cases such as Carey, and HFO v Patel is that they require a positive statement from the debtor about what he did or did not sign.

Also s78 does not require a copy of the signed piece of paper to be provided, so they do not have to send it to comply with s78

It is not as straight forward as people may think,

[greymatter]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Hi Paul
Yes ,I fully understand this.I have asked for my CCA(our standard template)use it every time.
However if they dont reply where do I stand on this??
I realise that the Carey case etc goes with the 'copy'only bit.However if in court I would need proof (signed) its also pre 2007 by the way.
I am aware of what you have written and appreciate the content,but
one part of my original two part question was 'Also is there any real need before I do this to write and request a response to my CCA request?
I just really want advice here as I feel its should not be up to me to chase them,however I was asking for AAD advice from Niddy/I2D as they clearly have the necessary experience and knowledge ,whereas I am still a novice.
So ,write or not write,thats the question(almost Shakespeare)
GM

[vint1954]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

It's almost better if they do send you your signed application or agreement, then you can see if it is enforcable or not.

It would be safest to continue your payment until you get a response to CCA, or it goes way over. Then wait to see what Niddy advises at that point.

[vint1954]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

They were due to respond last Wednesday.

I would suggest sending this next wednesday (+2weeks)

Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Reminder - Unenforceability Threat

Or sooner if you wish.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Greymatter - Paul is a leading litigator with cca's. He knows more than me & I2D together so I'd seriously pay attention to what he says if I was you

If it was my account I would stop paying pending the cca. But that's me.

[greymatter]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Hi Niddy/Vint1954
I take on board whatever Paul discusses/advises ,obviously he is the Professional.
I realise that I should not have asked the question re :withold payment or not,as this must be my decision,apologies.
I will leave it until next Wednesday and send
Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Reminder - Unenforceability Threat as this keeps the audit trail neat.
Thanks
GM

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Hi Niddy/Vint1954
I take on board whatever Paul discusses/advises ,obviously he is the Professional.
I realise that I should not have asked the question re :withold payment or not,as this must be my decision,apologies.
I will leave it until next Wednesday and send
Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Reminder - Unenforceability Threat as this keeps the audit trail neat.
Thanks
GM

That's a damned good idea.

[SA Gold]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

Just a thought, but if the creditors do hold the CCA, regardless if it was deemed enforceable; is there any reason they would hold back?

They know the request has been written by a professional and *if* they don't respond risk payments being stopped. Then, the next step would be to enforce, and therefore produce it, or send sh!tty letters.

Assuming my assumptions are correct, wouldn't they send it out as soon as they can?

[vint1954]

Re: Greymatter's ue Diary

It is probably just a time thing. They respond when they see fit. It took MBNA 3 months for a partial response to me.

We all know the banks please themselves, no matter what the law is. They never realy get punished for breaking it, unless you have good knowledgeable or legal advice on your side.