Roger UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

It's because it's before 19/05/85. I've explained why HSBC is likely unregulated.

It's because the relevant parts of the CCA wasn't in force until May 1985 hence the key date is always post (19)/05/1985. Anything prior to then was exempt as there was no such thing as a s.78 request.

Hence the HSBC agreement would likely be a non regulated agreement.

Read s.78 / s.141 etc. There's too many points to list but the key date is 05/1985. Section 78 wasn't valid before then either so you couldn't do a s.78 request now. It's a chargecard so was unregulated.

s.78 was brought into force on 19.5.1985. Schedule 3 states that "s.78 applies to an agreement made before 19.5.1985 where the agreement would have been regulated agreement if made on that day". Under regulation 9 of the copy documents regulations, it specifies that in the case of an agreement made before 19.5.1985 it is sufficient to supply a copy of the current terms which thus acts as a true copy. Obviously only for s.78, not for court (CPR applies).

However let's stick on track. This is not HSBC on this thread is it?

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

HSBC under (Midland umbrella) in the 90s issued 1 x mastercard & 1 x Visa card ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

HSBC in the 90s issued 1 x mastercard & 1 x Visa card ?

i know. Shared limit too

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

1972
NatWest, Midland, Lloyds & RBS join together to issue the Access credit card under the Joint CreditCardCompany (JCCC).

1972
Lloyds Bank ‘Cashpoint’ is the first on-line verified ATM using plastic cards with a magnetic stripe.

1974
Consumer Credit Act (Section 75) provides protection to consumers buying goods costing between £30 and £10,000 (£100 and £30,000 in 2005) on their credit card: if the product turns out to be sub-standard, or fails to be delivered, the cardholder can claim compensation from the card-issuing bank. The Act (Section 84) also limits customer liability to no more than £50 if cards are stolen, and used by someone else.

1977
Barclaycard issues the first UK company card – hitherto cards had been issued only to individuals.

1977
Consumer Credit Act comes into force on July 1st 1977

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

No techie. Trust me. It's 19 May 1985 that matters.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

Let's keep HSBC stuff separate from here. I'll move posts later to keep this thread on track.

[Roger]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

I know its in the wrong place but when I wanted this info I really had to dig and it wasn't readily available! If you do a query on the web you will see what I mean.
If you look at other sites you will see that HSBC among others have been getting away with murder over this very issue!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

I know its in the wrong place but when I wanted this info I really had to dig and it wasn't readily available! If you do a query on the web you will see what I mean.
If you look at other sites you will see that HSBC among others have been getting away with murder over this very issue!

They haven't. If it's an unregulated chargecard before 05/1985 then you're kinda snookered sadly.

However in your case you should feel aggrieved as technically once they swapped from Access to Credit Cards in the 90's that created a new agreement which WAS regulated and thus in my opinion you had a solid defence, as planB did when her restricted card went to unrestricted (Harrods Store Card to Credit Card). Suffice to say she won - rightly so.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

Most Access customers' accounts closed when they did (when access closed in 96) and you were invited to apply for one of the main cards offered by the participants of the JCCC (Southend on Sea)!

Therefore, if you had hsbc branded access and they simply sent you a visa & MasterCard in the late 90's after Access closed; you *should* have won if a claim was issued. They simply cannot do that.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

Interestingly in 1972 Midland promoted it as a Credit Card (not chargecard)....

Source -> https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,2042258&hl=en

[Roger]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

And that is what they did! The problem is the template letters were wrong approach and clouded the case. This plus a lack knowledge of protocol and procedure and a poor defence Bingo CCJ

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

And that is what they did! The problem is the template letters were wrong approach and clouded the case. This plus a lack knowledge of protocol and procedure and a poor defence Bingo CCJ

Shit that's bad. We were here 18 months ago & could have helped you.

Oh well. You live & learn sadly.

[Roger]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

Shit that's bad. We were here 18 months ago & could have helped you.

Oh well. You live & learn sadly.

request for copies agreement .
a) 16th December 2013 (“the credit card was opened in 1976 and as our client is not required to keep documents that are older that 6 years, they no longer hold a copy”)
b) 7th January 2014 (“We understand that until we do this we may be unable totake action in the courts”)

The response 7th Jan was to a s.78 request paid for with £1

Then two weeks or so before the claim was issued I was sent Current Terms to fulfil that outstanding request and they then went on and issued a claim (no outstanding s.78 report!).
I have updated the HSBC Credit Card entry

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Roger UE Diary

When was the CCJ granted? Exact date?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED ( HOWELL JONES LLP ) v Roger - Issued 1 December 2015

Then two weeks or so before the claim was issued I was sent Current Terms to fulfil that outstanding request and they then went on and issued a claim (no outstanding s.78 report!).
I have updated the HSBC Credit Card entry

Which is correct process, as per the regulations (Copy Docs Reg.9) - however the problem occurs with how the cards were incepted. If they just sent you the new credit cards then that changed everything as the relevant sections of CCA were enacted in the late 90's (ie s.60/61/78/87/88 etc etc)....

Likewise, it began as Access (restricted) and went to Visa & MasterCard which was widely accepted (Access wasn't and you couldn't withdraw cash either (from ATM)).