Endeavour

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

Many thanks for all your comments, Niddy yes HFC own Endeavour (see below)

It seems the main issue is the fact that it is an un-regulated agreement and everyone contacted whether direct (including CEO's) or via the solicitors or FOS have all said the same thing.

Purple Loans are the people who sold the loan and they weren't signed up to any regulatory bodies at the time so are un-touchable. The link between Purple/Endeavour would seem to be only that Purple had a list of loans companies they could use all of which I imagine would pay them a commission. The commission part was found out by the solicitor who's opinion was that it would not help as there was not a fiduciary agreement between myself and Purple i.e that they would act in my best interests, plus as no fee was paid by me to purple it was not unreasonable for them to be paid by other means.

Basically Endeavour and Purple are un-touchable and I won't get anywhere with them.

I actually asked the FOS to look at the insurer route after they had previously phoned me to say there wasn't anything they could do about EPF/Purple.

The original insurer was BFC in Dublin, to save typing it all again, post 134 shows how I traced BFC to Hamilton and then to Aviva. Endeavour and the insurers were connected as they were both part of the Household International group of companies. The FOS had this to say about Aviva

" Although Aviva took over Hamilton Insurance, they did not take on the liabilities of Hamilton policies sold alongside Endeavour Personal Finance Loans. This remained the responsibility of HFC Bank as the insurer was part of HFC Bank at the time of sale.

As mentioned in my view I looked at whether we could consider this complaint against HFC Bank however as the loan and PPI policy was arranged through a broker (Purple Loans) we have not been able to find any evidence from the surviving point of sale documents which reasonable shows evidence of an agency relationship between Purple Loans, Endeavour Personal Finance and the insurer.

I hope this has provided some clarification as to why we cannot consider this complaint against Aviva. "


My only question here would be is it true that if one company takes over another it can leave behind liabilities with the original company even though that company no longer exists because it's been taken over because surely that is what the FOS are saying isn't it ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Endeavour

In Link v Jones (2012) - a s.78 case (ie regulated) it was determined by the High Court that the Assignee (new owner) holds the same rights and obligations as the assignor (original creditor). Whether it's relevant or not I'm unsure......

[Bill-K]

Re: Endeavour

From what I understand of the Jones -v- Link appeal, it relied on the agreement being a CCA-regulated one, and on the interpretation of s.189 as regards assignment. HHJ Hamblen appears to have taken the view that - although the CCA is not crystal clear about rights and/or duties - the purpose of s.189 must be to ensure that rights and duties are both passed to the assignee, where the assignee needs to have the legal right to pursue the assigned debt - s.189 even says "In this Act, unless the context requires otherwise..." thereby allowing for flexibility of interpretation. Although the case was based on a CCA-regulated agreement - I'm inclined to believe that Hamblen's judgment can apply to all debt assignments (whether under CCA regs. or not) - and that the assignment of a creditor's rights without their associated duties toward the debtor must be considered as unlawful - except in certain circumstances.

It may well be that s.136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 (quoted by Hamblen) provides a remedy to the earlier assertion that - because LF's agreement was unregulated - there was no requirement for the assignee to accept both the rights and duties upon assignment, and that perhaps the LoP Act still requires this. My understanding of s.136 is that unless the debt has been properly and lawfully assigned, it is considered only to be an 'equitable' assignment - and the assignee cannot pursue the debt themselves. If lawfully assigned, it becomes a 'legal' assignment - and the rights and duties are fully then transferred to the assignee. I believe this may also be termed 'absolute' assignment, where a DCA actually 'buys' a debt from the Original Creditor - as opposed to simply collecting repayments and passing them to the OC.

But I am well out of my depth here, and this needs better people than I to fathom out.

[di30]

Re: Endeavour

Hi there

I would give HFC a try on this one as these did take over EPF.

Now in my case I ended up resolving this one myself, as I did also have this one in with the FOS, in the end I contacted the FOS/Ombudsman and told him not to worry anymore as I sorted this myself with HFC. Case Closed, as Itoo was getting the same old usual feedback from them.

Now I have not had the chance to read all posts thoroughly has yet but have you tried HFC and asking them who the Underwriter was?

Sorry I not been around, been getting some bad days with health issues, and thank you for PM If :-)

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

Hi Di,

Hope you are feeling better and thanks for your post :-)

HFC - can't see in my file that I did although some complaints were via email which I didn't have copies of (changed comp). I know I contacted GE/EPF/Purple/FOS/Aviva and uncle tom cobley and all lol

I already know the underwriter though BFC who through 2 sales are now with Aviva whom I tried myself and via FOS to know avail. Are you saying to try HFC directly with the PPI or was that jus to ask re the underwriter ?

Thx

[di30]

Re: Endeavour

Hi Di,

Hope you are feeling better and thanks for your post :-)

HFC - can't see in my file that I did although some complaints were via email which I didn't have copies of (changed comp). I know I contacted GE/EPF/Purple/FOS/Aviva and uncle tom cobley and all lol

I already know the underwriter though BFC who through 2 sales are now with Aviva whom I tried myself and via FOS to know avail. Are you saying to try HFC directly with the PPI or was that jus to ask re the underwriter ?

Thx

Hiya

Thank you am doing okay and staying hopeful, just lots more check ups now but that is fine lol.

I did end up going to HFC on mine and succeeded through them in the end with the EPF, and I must state not even the FOS could get through to them.
However, in my case the loan broker completed the application over the phone, they did not apply the PPI, we had a copy sent to us in the post, but nothing at all was ticked on the PPI, when they sent the forms through to EPF, they use their own application it was added by them, but at first I could not find the details when I first went into make a reclaim, but thankfully found all the info I needed and decided to write to HFC myself and send them the info by email to prove that the loan broker Click Finance did not apply the PPI, and on the EPF (now HFC) did. So then they had no choice after fighting them for some time they did give in.

I would try anyway you can to get round these as they will try to fob off, and I do realise you have had one heck of a battle, keep playing at them and any evidence you do have then throw at them.

I see you have had great advice as above in my absence x x

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

I'm finding it hard to motivate myself to go through all the paperwork yet again to complain to HFC, I've had so many knockbacks I'm sick to death of it. I will though, but I just thought I'd post to thank you and to also laugh at the fact that the FOS have asked me to fill in a survey .................................................. Wonder if I can swear

[IF]

Re: Endeavour

I just wanted to post to say I am so sorry to hear about all the knockbacks, it must be so frustrating for you lookingforward...........and yes you can swear

Best wishes
IF

[nanna58]

Re: Endeavour

Just tell em the ....bleep bleep truth xx

[di30]

Re: Endeavour

I can totally understand how you feel,as it was about 2008 approx I started with this one but about 2011/12 they had enough and gave in, they knew they would never get rid of me as they ran out of excuses. I thrown all the evidence back in their faces, and done so until I was satified,then they upheld in the end.
Yep it is most frustrating indeed but fingers crossed you will get there....

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

Thanks Di,

Unfortunately I'm going to have to let it go, I've no further evidence I can give and there's no where else to go now the FOS have said no

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

Had the regular email from the Ombudsman which mentioned the victory by Pleven V Paragon where she didn't know about the commission paid. I didn't either so I've asked them to look at it again and have rec'd back

"
I have sent a request over to the team that deals with reopening complaints to see if your complaint is one we can reopen.

I will be in touch once I hear back from them.

In the meantime if you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me."

So you never know......................................

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

Got a reply today saying :-

I understand you want us to consider the commission element between Endeavour and Purple Loans. However, we have looked to see what cases would be affected by the Plevin judgement and your complaint does not appear to be one that is affected. I say this because neither Endeavour, nor Purple Loans were covered by us or any previous dispute schemes at the time of sale and therefore we would not be able to consider your complaint against them.

If you still believe we can consider your complaint against Aviva then please let me know. Otherwise, I’m sorry we are unable to help you any further on this occasion.

Still can't get my head around the fact that because they did not volunteer to sign up for a dispute scheme they can't be held to account for whatever they did...in that case why would they sign up until they thought it would lose them business I suppose.

As far as Aviva goes they have already dismissed my case against them for the insurance element because they are best buddies, I mean they have good reasons and I quote:-

Although Aviva took over Hamilton Insurance, they did not take on the liabilities of Hamilton policies sold alongside Endeavour Personal Finance Loans

So once again, it looks like it's over

[lookingforward]

Re: Endeavour

As a separate issue, is Di OK she hasn't been on for a long while

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Endeavour

As a separate issue, is Di OK she hasn't been on for a long while

Yes she's dealing with her own creditors and stuff.