Pip's UE Diary

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Send Blair Oliver a copy of the last template you sent - unless you think they've crossed in the post as you only stated March as sending the threat of legal action template.....

Thanks Niddy -- will send again as they received it in the first week of March ... this is becoming a bit of a pattern with in-house DCAs ... (BLS/Lloyds, BOS/Bank of Scotland) but can't expect much else from the twazzocks.

While it's still March, can I cram this one in? Not a big fan of St Patrick's Day a.k.a. Guinness Marketing Bandwagon Day (although I do like Guinness!) and I missed getting this out in time. But it deserves a muppety mention and it's a good laugh!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thanks Niddy -- will send again as they received it in the first week of March

Use a larger typeface as they are evidently getting hairy palms and going blind from too much debt collecting.

this is becoming a bit of a pattern with in-house DCAs ... (BLS/Lloyds, BOS/Bank of Scotland) but can't expect much else from the twazzocks.

Indeed, but that's because they share the same, arrogant ethos of their parent companies, all of whom seem to have the idea that the law simply does not apply to anything they do.

It was heralded as some sort of a breakthrough when the ruling of the Fundamentally Supine Authority on mis-sold payment 'protection' insurance was upheld in the courts, as the banks thought they could win with their argument that they weren't 'regulated' at the time the policies were sold.

Well, so what?

Since when exactly was it lawful for a bank to swindle its customers?

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Another muppet:

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Since when exactly was it lawful for a bank to swindle its customers?

Isn't that what they've been doing all along? Like charging £25 to send you a letter saying they DIDN'T pay a DD? Even 20 years ago, when £25 was a lot more in real terms!

The difference between such egregious overcharging or profiteering, and actually swindling their customers may seem slight, but there is a difference.

When a bank refuses to proceed with a transaction, it should tell its customer what it has (not) done and give the reason why. The actual cost of this to the bank is no more than a few pence; even including the cost of the postage, the cost will not exceed £1 and that is all the bank should charge as liquidated damages. The rest of the penalty charge - and it is a penalty, despite what the thin-lipped Andrew Smith might have declared - is pure profit. As all banks do this, there is a market failure and customers have, effectively, no way to migrate to a bank that does not overcharge.

In the case of wrongly sold Payment 'Protection' Insurance, no service had been provided for the customer, nor would any service ever be provided. The premiums were pure profit, with no cost to the bank save a few pounds for telling customers who tried to claim that their claim would not be honoured. One might even wonder why the banks did not also offer meteor strike insurance or insurance against an invasion from the planet Kwako - perhaps they thought they might have to pay out on such policies?

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Even worse when you've been paying such insurance on a flexi account and the insurance has been charged every month even when the account is in credit (which has been 90% of the time), unlike conventional PPI on a CC where the charge varies in accordance with the outstanding balance.

I have been paying such 'insurance' for over 18 years without really being aware of it!

Does that mean you'll soon be rich?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

But first I have to get Satander to send me my SAR

I'll be doing my SAR chaser to YB later tonight (well about 4am) so will post it on my thread re YB. I'm sure you were gonna copy it - if not you, someone

* head fried right now!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 4
MBNA
Start date: June 2003
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £5,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued March 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA Request sent to MBNA
JAN CCA received -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says half and half
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to MBNA
JAN Letter received from MBNA saying "Balance sold to Britannica Recoveries S.á.r.l. Mortlake"; with letter in same envelope from "Moorgate Loan Servicing". The wording says "it's been purchased", but there is no Notice of Assignment ...
FEB Letter from MBNA: Documents provided do comply with CCA requirements // As such, there is no need to seek an enforcement order in order to exercise our rights.
FEB Letter from Moorgate Loan Servicing: (referring to "Loan Account Number" -- it wasn't a loan). Not received payment on your a/c. Your a/c will now be transferred to our appointed agents, Arden Credit Management who will contact you to discuss repayment of the outstanding balance. (There is no reference in this letter to the original MBNA account whatsoever)
FEB Letter from Arden "Credit Managment": We have been instructed by Moorgate Loan Servicing to recover an amount outstanding to them. We have assumed responsibility for working with you to repay this amount; therefore all communication should be with us. Please call on receipt of this letter to discuss repayment. Easiest way to pay is debit or CREDIT CARD.
MAR Letter from Arden "Credit Managment": I am very concerned that you have not taken steps to address balance referred to in previous letter // Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement could result in sending someone to your address to discuss matter in person, passing account to solicitors to obtain judgment and enforcement action in line with your circumstances (e.g. charging orders/attachment of earnings). These have potential for increasing your current balance as charges for someone to speak to you in person would be added to your amount owed. CCJs will impact credit rating etc. This is an extremely urgent matter and one you should not ignore. To avoid any potential additional charges or negative impact to credit file, contact us ...
MAR Sent Prove It letter
MAR Letter from Arden: We are writing to confirm that the present situation of non-payment on the above account is not acceptable. // Full balance due and payable // You are in breach of this requirement; options available to you: monthly instalments/lump sum // Should you choose to do nothing, we may take further action: agent in person/legal action. Do not ignore this letter.
MAR Letter from Arden: Thank you for your letter dated xxx. I am presently investigating the comments you raised and a full response will be sent shortly.

It's a bit of an eerie feeling to get nearly a fortnight of DCA silence! It's a bit of a first and I should try to enjoy it when it happens, rather than entertaining self-torturing fantasies about brown envelopes with Northampton addresses on the back dropping through the letterbox
This weird thing just came in:

APR Letter from Moorgate Loan Servicing: MBNA wrote advising your credit agreement had been cancelled // Options available to them included Sale of Debt. Your account has now legally been sold to Britannica Recoveries. We will consider complaint closed if we have not heard from you within eight weeks. They also enclosed a weirdly "hey! trendy! cool!" letter from Virgin Money: We're pleased to enclose a copy of your most recent T&Cs. Don't forget some of the other fantastic features of your account: Log on to do blah blah etc. You can even go paperless! [squeals with knicker-wetting excitement]. We'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your custom and we look forward to hearing from you soon. They enclose "current" MBNA T&Cs -- 6 pages -- even though it's no longer current as MBNA have sold the account ..?

To my amateurish untrained eye, I'd guess it's a case of "wait and see what they send next"?

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Was it signed by a Head of Customer Satisfaction by any chance? Mine was!!!

Yep ... how did you guess! The whole Virgin™ Brand® "We do things a little differently" bullshight really gets up one's nose. It's so phony and false and insincere and dreamt up in a marketing company's Soho head office brainstorming session ... Virgin Wines used to be particularly nauseating. I once got a case from them in 2000 very cheap from QXL [remember that forerunner to ebay?] and they sent some coasters with snide, "witty" crap on them like "If it tastes nice just tip it down your neck in one gulp" or such. This nonsense seems to be across all of their brands.

I often do support work for marketing people, and it's one profession (along with PR, mass mail and advertising) that no-one would miss or notice the absence of if it suddenly and mysteriously disappeared off the face of the Earth. I long ago came to terms with the fact that my job is for the most part utterly pointless!
(Come to think of it, most jobs are ... --> Anxiety Culture | Stupid, Pointless Jobs -- an old but funny site with lots of nasty clip-art that lets rip at our favourite "industry")

Then there is the ultimate menace, the absolute evil... Financial Services. Financial Services is a huge industry – banking, credit cards and insurance are bigger in the UK than manufacturing. Financial Services has provided vast numbers of pointless jobs.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Hmm. The quiet period was never going to last long!

Pip's account no. 3
Lloyds TSB
Start date: Jan 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £13,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued November 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request letter sent to Lloyds TSB (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN Letter from B*L*S*** Collections saying payment plan is now in arrears [payment into DMP reduced in December]. "To avoid action, blah, make payment with debit or CREDIT CARD. Contact CAB or CCCS."
JAN Identical letter to one above from B*L*S*** Collections, dated/arriving one day later
JAN Reply to CCA request received from Lloyds TSB -- Niddy says !
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter
JAN Letter from BLS Collections saying "It is essential that you telephone BLS Collections TODAY. " in capitals, bold AND underlined! [this is due to reduced payment they received last month. Payments have now stopped altogether]
JAN Letter from BLS Collections: "Repayment plan you agreed to is still overdue. We have previously reminded you about the money and you must pay the amount outstanding straight away. If you don't pay the outstanding amount to bring your account back on track within 10 days you will fall further into arrears etc./payment plan will be cancelled and full balance will be due. They're Lloyds TSB's inhouse DCA/letter printing machine -- do I need to respond to this? See also Lloyds TSB letter received below
JAN Letter from Lloyds TSB: According to our records we supplied reconstituted copies of the agreement in place at the time the account was opened and the one currently in place. By providing these copies, we satisfied our obligation under s.78. [snipped -- full version on page 1] // Signed by a real human with a real biro!
FEB Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: Essential that you call BLS TODAY.
FEB Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: In arrears // Failure to contact may result in court proceedings, door-to-door collections agent
FEB Sent Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action
MAR Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: Essential that you call BLS TODAY.
MAR Letter from B*L*S*** Collections: We wrote to you recently and can only assume, due to your lack of contact, that you have no intention of paying this debt on a voluntary basis. // If you do not contact us on the above telephone number within the next 14 days, you will force us to commence legal action against you. This will occur additional fees and cost, estimated to be a minimum of £290. [snipped -- full version on page 1]. Payment by CREDIT/debit card.
MAR Replied sending copies of Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action previously sent to them which they have so far ignored

APR Letter on Lloyds TSB letterhead but with Robinson Way address at top right of page: Statement of account going back a year [laid out like a letter, not a "regular" credit card statement] Wording includes: If you have a problem with your agreement, please try and settle it with us in the first instance.

APR Letter from Robinson Way (same day as above LTSB statement letter): FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT. Our client has authorised us to recover the full amount you owe. PLEASE PAY blah. If you cannot pay in full, call us to agree an affordable payment plan. If you don't, we may advise court action. If you fail to pay in accordance with court payment order, the following may occur: # Application made to court to enforce repayment [?], # Future credit will be difficult to obtain [durr!]. # This account may continue to be a worry for you. Unpaid debts don't just go away or get forgotten no matter how much people want that to happen.

The Robinson Way letter is sort of threatening, but in a kid-gloves sort of way. BLS never responded to the two letters I sent. Wonder what to send to Robinson Way now, if anything? Thanks! :

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 6
RBS Mint
Start date: March 2000
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £5,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Nov 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA Request sent to RBS
JAN CCA received -- emailed Niddy --Niddy says (post #92)
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter
FEB Received letter from RBS: We have met our obligations under s78(1). We see no reason to enter into further correspondence about alleged CCA breaches. We do not consider this account to be in dispute. Contact CAB or similar if you continue to doubt the veracity of what we have told you about our having complied with our obligations under s78(1).
MAR Letter from RBS: (and a terse one at that): THIS IS A FINAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT // We currently require £xxxxxx.xx from you. If we do not receive payment within the next 14 days, the account will be sent to a debt collection agent. Even at this late stage, this can be prevented and we are still willing to discuss a payment programme.

APR Letter from Allied International Credit (AIC): Your account has been passed to us by RBS Card Services to act as a collection agent and we will now be dealing with your a/c. // We offer a flexible approach [...] different options that suit a wide range of personal circumstances [...] You may have been unable to find a suitable repayment plan on this account previously and we believe that we can help you repay the account. [nice!] We will be in contact with you during the next seven days by letter and/or phone in order to discuss your repayment options in detail. In the meantime, if you want to contact us you can phone us on a Glasgow number even though the address on the back of the envelope is a Bristol one. [Thanks for the offer but I don't think I'll bother.]

Looks like they've made it clear in their letter that this one is an "Ignore for Now" job!

[MrsD]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

I'd send account sold in dispute to both these numpties. AIC have a big office in Glasgow city centre, staffed by students on minimum wage who only make enough to live on if the make commission.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

I'd send account sold in dispute to both these numpties. AIC have a big office in Glasgow city centre, staffed by students on minimum wage who only make enough to live on if the make commission.

So starve the buggers into submission?

[nanna58]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

I had an AIC on a lovely shade of yellow card ever so nice . They soon buggered off.
Think they like to SEEM scary

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 2
Halifax
Start date: Oct 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued April 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2011 = Pre-AAD days
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "intended litigation", referring to Halifax as "our client"
JUN CCA request letter sent to Moorcroft
JUN Moorcroft: Notice of "possible litigation", including a list of silly potential fees
JUN Moorcroft confirming CCA request, say they've requested docs from Halifax; account on hold until docs supplied. Request for indication of info I would rely upon when giving evidence to a court (??!)
JUL Account in dispute letter sent (although, sillily, I was continuing to pay via DMP)
JUL Moorcroft confirming CCA request, identically worded to June letter
JUL Another account in dispute letter sent
JUL Moorcroft: "We understand our client has now contacted you with the relevant information [they hadn't] ... we trust that the documents resolve your query ...
SEP Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, saying that Moorcroft are responsible for the admin of the account and telling me I should pay them (even though they haven't bought it)
SEP Another account in dispute letter sent
NOV Moorcroft acknowledging direct payment to Halifax, same wording as Sep letter above
DEC CCA Final Demand sent to Moorcroft -- they signed for original CCA request letter in June and cashed the PO around the same time (checked with Post Office)

2012 = now following AAD guidance
JAN CCA request letter sent direct to Halifax (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN From Moorcróft: Missed call (early morning weekend) and text from Moorcróft: Please contact us immediately on 0161 ... to discuss your overdue payment on account no. xxx. Another missed call from Moorcroft a few days later (evening)
JAN Moorcroft letter: Records show not paid Halifax full amount [did pay them something in Dec though]. Unless payment received by return of post, we may recommend to our clients that they instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings without further notice. Neither we nor client wish to take this step; call us on above no. and we would be happy to agree a repayment plan.Note: Moorcroft don't own this debt, they know payment has continued to go to Halifax, so why the hell bother paying the monkey (or indeed the organ grinder)...
JAN CCA received from HBOS directly -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says and to wait for now to see what comes back from other lenders.
JAN Rather cryptically, have received a letter and £1 cheque from Moorcroft: "Further to your request for a copy of your credit agreement, we regret that because of the age of this account our client is unable to produce a copy of your document given that the agreement is over 6 years old and to this end we therefore return the £1 payment [...] Notwithstanding this our clients believe the above balance remains due and payable and we therefore require immediate payment of this sum or realistic proposals for repayment. The Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed that whereas a debtor is not obliged to repay the account due to the provisions of the CCA, this does not mean that there was no enforceable agreement. Look forward to hearing from you within next 14 days with proposals for discharging this liability."
FEB Moorcroft letter: "Home Collections Division". You have defaulted on agreement we reached [I didn't negotiate any agreement with Moorcroft]. This may involve our local rep calling at your home in next few day to try to assist you [...] Payment must reach us in three days. If no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local rep we'll have to recommend to client that solicitors commence legal proceedings without further notice.
FEB Sent Threat of Doorstep Visit letter
FEB Sent Letter Previously Confirming No CCA
FEB Exceedingly polite three-page letter (with two-page appendix) from Moorcroft! (with some grammar corkers): We confirm your account has been amended to ensure NO telephone calls and NO visits while contact is maintained in writing as you have suggested. We stress that it is certainly not our intention to harass any member of the public with our contact at our client's request ... ["any member of the public"?? Like a random shopper in the high street?]. // Our records show that we have providided [sic] you with our client's response advising that due to the age of this account our client would be unable to provide this documentation for you [and very nice of you to put it in writing for me again, thank you very much!].// We feel it prudent at this point to bring to you attention the following information: In relation to the validity of a debt, it is our understanding that the Information Commissioner's Office has confirmed blah unenforceablity [I can't for the life of me think what the Information Commissioner has to do with this?]. // Account will remain on hold for 28 days to give you an opportunity to respond. Should we receive no further contact within the 28 days we believe it is sensible to close this account on our systems and return this account back to our client.

I'll know next time to enjoy the quiet periods while they last! This has come in ...

APR Letter from CapQuest: Your Halifax account has been referred to CapQuest to manage in all matters relating to collection, which may include personal visits by doorstep collection agency and possible litigation. If you are not in a position to settle account in full contact us blah etc.

... and I think it's a case of "Letter Previously confirming no CCA"!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

I had an AIC on a lovely shade of yellow card ever so nice . They soon buggered off.
Think they like to SEEM scary

Oh. they do. Perhaps the feeling of power gives them a stiffy?