Pip's UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Sorry please take that para out. I need to edit it. Well spotted

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 3
Lloyds TSB
Start date: Jan 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £13,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued November 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
Jan CCA request letter sent to Lloyds TSB (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)

Jan Letter from B*L*S*** Collections saying payment plan is now in arrears [payment into DMP reduced in December]. "To avoid action, blah, make payment with debit or CREDIT CARD. Contact CAB or CCCS."

Jan Identical letter to one above from B*L*S*** Collections, dated/arriving one day later

Jan Reply to CCA request received from Lloyds TSB Holding off on emailing it to Niddy until after his return. Even to my untrained eye it looks like a lot (or not very much) codswallop, a good chunk of it sanctimonious and hectoring ... Now emailed to Niddy(!)

was this applied for online?

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

was this applied for online?

No -- at least I very much doubt it. It's from early 2004-ish. Pretty sure I applied for all credit cards via hand-written application forms sent back through the post.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Then its

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

(double posting -- inadvertently posted rather than preview)

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Sorry please take that para out. I need to edit it. Well spotted

Sorry to be a nit-pick-git ..! But do you really mean the entire [first] paragraph?

Also, despite me knowing near enough nowt about legal stuff, there's one bit in the letters that has perplexed me a bit:

This means a creditor cannot:
• make the debtor pay the debt before they are supposed to

It's the before they're supposed to bit that I wonder about ... not really sure what it means, as in when exactly would the debtor be supposed to pay the debt? It seems a little open-ended and vague. (Possibly intentional and useful though, the vagueness!)

Really not trying or intending to nit-pick-[git] but that's one thing that jumped out at me somehow, a bit like this big-breasted banana ... !

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

It quite simply means they cannot enforce it. ie until you're supposed to pay it.

It's actually a direct quote and used for one reason and one reason alone - to warn the creditor not to take the piss.

Regards template, well obviously you delete the part pertaining to "attach a copy..."

[oscar]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

edit - posted after Niddy responded.

Hes quick that bloke!!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

It quite simply means they cannot enforce it. ie until you're supposed to pay it.

It's actually a direct quote and used for one reason and one reason alone - to warn the creditor not to take the piss.

Regards template, well obviously you delete the part pertaining to "attach a copy..."

Great thanks.
Would I send the same letter to the UE Lloyds TSB one given what little they sent?

It will give quite great pleasure to be able to start telling Lloyds TSB in particular and their in-house DCAs to figuratively sling their hooks as they have been by far and away the nastiest creditor to deal with ..!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Yep send same to both

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

(Re. Sainsbury's)

Hmmm, one does wonder why the application form was 'created' in 2003 but the terms for that product were dated 08/2002.

I suspect they are not the same ones, but irrespective they were not the same ones that you should have seen when you allegedly signed the agreement - that much we know.

So they've sent the actual agreement, fine, they've sent current terms, fine but they are missing the actual terms as at inception and thus this is temporarily unenforceable (easy for them to remedy)...

I would send this back to Moorcroft: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

Moorcroft aren't yet dealing with this; it's just the original creditor. I may be splitting hairs at this stage, but in the Missing Prescribed Terms letter to send back it says:

I do not think it is a lot to ask for you to simply go and fetch the original agreement, photocopy it and pop it in an envelope to me. The only reason that I can presume avoidance of such a simple process is if you never actually had a copy of the original agreement in which case may I remind you that OFT Guidance clearly states that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:

hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones

Does it matter that Sainsbury's/HBOS actually have sent back a photocopy of the original signed agreement? Or is the letter so worded as the agreement in its entirety would/should have contained the correct prescribed terms ...

I'll gladly send off one of these to Lloyds TSB, but as the Sainsbury's one is borderline I'd prefer to wait for confirmation that I definitely send the Missing Prescribed Terms one off (it is indeed missing the prescribed terms but it's the wording about the missing photocopied original agreement, flawed or otherwise, that I'm not sure about as they did indeed send a copy of the original).

Many thanks again, and please tell me to put a sock in it if I'm reading too much into these ...
Thanks!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Ok tell you what make your own templates. do you know the effort that went into these!? They are generalised templates that each user should read and edit as appropriate.

Yea you bloody are splitting hairs.

Best of luck

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Moorcroft was a typo. I meant original creditor.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Ok tell you what make your own templates. do you know the effort that went into these!? They are generalised templates that each user should read and edit as appropriate.

Yea you bloody are splitting hairs.

Best of luck

I'm really sorry. Honestly. I didn't realise they were meant to be read through and individually edited.

I'm just at the start of this process and I'm worrying too much. I have read through lots of diaries and know that your advice is invaluable. I'm genuinely sorry for having irritated you so much as that was the last thing I intended. Please accept this as a genuine apology.

Thanks for the pointer though that they are generalised and should be edited as appropriate -- I should have realise this but didn't.

Sorry again.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

You'll get lenders writing to you saying "do this, do that, quoting loads of laws at you" - half of it is nonsense.

The point and purpose of a template is to confuse the reader and clarify a point. Thus if you read the diaries and see the effect our templates have you'll see, YOU DO NOT NEED TO SPLIT THEM APART. Just put in an envelope and post it.

Jesus no need to be so proper, so what if there's an irrelevant point? You think they'll sit there and read your template? Well do you?

I'm not pissed - I just find it rather insulting that you're going to start questioning my every move. I don't have the time to explain things again. Read the diaries mate. It's all there.

We deliberately make them long, confusing and worded like they are for maximum effect. Rip that up and you'll leave a gap that they will jump on.