My Diary

[Night Monkey]

...the case law about not reporting UE accounts

This gets discussed periodically, and my understanding is that you'd need a definitive judgment that a debt was irredeemably unenforceable for a CRA to remove an entry. It's always 'possible' that a CCA could be retrieved in the future for instance, and making an argument for removal would probably involve resetting the SB clock. AFAIK everyone here has erred on the side of caution and just let the clock run down.

[The Tech Clerk]

tick tock

[Pat]

This gets discussed periodically, and my understanding is that you'd need a definitive judgment that a debt was irredeemably unenforceable for a CRA to remove an entry. It's always 'possible' that a CCA could be retrieved in the future for instance, and making an argument for removal would probably involve resetting the SB clock. AFAIK everyone here has erred on the side of caution and just let the clock run down.

That is what I thought but someone who should know told me arguably it could apply to accounts that creditors said were UE. Not heard of it being used though.

Indeed tick tock

[The Tech Clerk]

The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can't be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it. as I understand it.

[The Tech Clerk]

In holding there was such a breach of DPA 1998 by registering a default where the agreement is wholly unenforceable, the Court of Appeal reached a decision that has far-reaching effects both for borrowers and for the credit industry. The decision of course provides an important benefit for defaulting borrowers under unenforceable credit agreements, as an adverse entry with a credit reference agency can have a significant effect on the ability to borrow, or the cost of borrowing (the registration of Mr Grace’s non-payment increased the cost of the annual percentage rate (APR) on a loan taken out by his co-habitee from 10.5%. to 17.9%). It also gives creditors a problem as, when deciding whether to lend, the fact of non-payment by the potential borrower is still relevant even if the agreement is unenforceable, but the credit reference agencies’ systems do not currently allow the lender to make an entry explaining that, while there has been non-payment, this was under an unenforceable agreement—the judgment prevents them therefore registering such a default at all. Credit reference agencies will be under pressure to amend their systems to address the problem. ##

Grace and another v Black Horse Limited [2014] EWCA Civ 1413, [2014] All ER (D) 05 (Nov)

[ca71]

Re: Debt1 - Now passed to PRA Group UK Portfolios Limited.

[Roger]

Re: Debt1 - Now passed to PRA Group UK Portfolios Limited.

Debt > £10

Your Diary doesn't mention which PRA Group company was Assigned the Debt.
01/08/2021 - PRA considers the account unenforceable. (This Letter is GOLD DUST!)
When you say passed do you mean Assigned and from whom in PRA to PRA Group UK Portfolios Limited

I presume nothing has changed since 1st August 2021
File do nothing which would restart the Statute Bar Clock and SILENCE

[ca71]

Debt > £10

Your Diary doesn't mention which PRA Group company was Assigned the Debt.
01/08/2021 - PRA considers the account unenforceable. (This Letter is GOLD DUST!)
When you say passed do you mean Assigned and from whom in PRA to PRA Group UK Portfolios Limited

I presume nothing has changed since 1st August 2021
File do nothing which would restart the Statute Bar Clock and SILENCE

Hi Roger

Actual words from email: PRA Group (UK) Limited recently transferred your account to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.

Silence is indeed golden (and my default position!)

[Still Waving]

Debt > £10

Your Diary doesn't mention which PRA Group company was Assigned the Debt.
01/08/2021 - PRA considers the account unenforceable. (This Letter is GOLD DUST!)
When you say passed do you mean Assigned and from whom in PRA to PRA Group UK Portfolios Limited

I presume nothing has changed since 1st August 2021
File do nothing which would restart the Statute Bar Clock and SILENCE

I don't understand why the OP made a F&F offer after PRA had said they consider the account UE.

[ca71]

I don't understand why the OP made a F&F offer after PRA had said they consider the account UE.

That was a mistake. I was bolstered by the fact that the Cabot court action had failed and I thought I could easily dispense with another one. Lesson well and truly learnt.

[Roger]

".. Actual words from .."email: PRA Group (UK) Limited recently transferred your account to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd. .."
Nothing about Assigning?
Might or might not be important but the devil is often in the details

[Sparkles]

PRA Reference: x

Dear x
PRA Group (UK) Limited recently transferred your account to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.

There is no change to how you normally talk to us, your account will continue to be managed by PRA Group (UK) Limited, but the benefits, rights, title and interest in this account are now owned by PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.

If you are paying us directly or through a third party, such as a debt management company, this change will not affect your payment plan; please continue to make your agreed payments.

We have included some frequently asked questions, but please get in touch if you have any other questions.

The Legal Bit

PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd and PRA Group (UK) Limited are now data controllers of your personal data for this account.

We have included a copy of each company's fair processing notice with this email as required under the Data Protection Act 2018. These notices set out what personal data the companies collect and how they use that data.

View PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd fair processing notice

View PRA Group (UK) Limited fair processing notice


Details of your transferred account can be found below:
Original Creditor Account Number: x
PRA Account Number: x
Original Creditor: x
Account Balance: x
Agreement Date: x
Yours sincerely
Carissa Rae
Head of UK Core Operations
PRA Group (UK) Limited

[Sparkles]

That's what they said to me, in an email with no date of transfer.

[ca71]

".. Actual words from .."email: PRA Group (UK) Limited recently transferred your account to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd. .."
Nothing about Assigning?
Might or might not be important but the devil is often in the details

Nope - no mention of assigning.

[Still Waving]

Nope - no mention of assigning.

"but the benefits, rights, title and interest in this account are now owned by PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd."

This company was set up only a few months ago, but I can't yet see the reason for it.