Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 01/2020]

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

can you precis that for me...

Yea - it's confusing (and I still think my post (#371) above stands)

[realfedup]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Hi


ive had some info back from a SARs . The card was originally a MSDW CC. I'm a bit concerned about what has been sent.
Part 1 application form (one A4 sheet)
has my name typed in (as i recall it was one of those posted to me ‘come and get me’ pre printed teaser forms)
hand filled in details, sections 1-11.
Section12 is titled ‘About this agreement’ - however the print is completely unintelligible. (as is the print for most of the form actually)
At the bottom of this page it states
‘now please turn over and sign the agreement Part 2.


i have not been provided with Part 2 (overleaf) showing my signature and/or any other detail. So frustrating. Will i have now to fork out £1 for a CCA request or should i complain that the SARs is incomplete.


would the fact that the unintelligible print mean the CCA is unenforcible? and should my signature be on the same page as Section 12, which details the agreement?


This maybe in the wrong thread, Please accept my apologies if this is the case.

[MrsD]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

very often SARs are incomplete but if they are saying that's all they've got and it IS incomplete, that is better for you.

Have you had any letters from creditors about this one? and if so what did they say? and when?

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Hi Realfedup,
If someone is chasing you for this then an incomplete SAR doesn't offer the same legal protection that an incomplete CCA Request does.
If you answer MrsD's questions we can suggest the best way forward

Elsa x

[realfedup]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Hi. Im part of the MKDP assigned to Hoist club, and getting the odd call from Robberways.
i would just like to be clear(er) as to what they have and have not got. Was thinking of doing a follow up to the SARs pointing out that the agreement doc was incomplete and for them to send me a copy of ALL they have in relation to the document. I'm a little confused as to whether they are obliged to send me a copy of the full agreement under SAR, or if i have to do a separate CCA request:-(

[julian]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

SAR may contain a copy of the Credit Agreement and may indicate in the logs which sets of Terms of Conditions they have available. Sometimes some or all the documents are supplied sometimes a mixture of documents and logs. If the Credit Agreement was made online there may be a list of the data fields.

The CCA request deals specifically with the Credit Agreement and sets of Terms of Conditions. The CCA request requires them to respond with True Copies of all.

In brief, to be sure send a CCA request. Then you will see what you can challenge, or the forum can help you understand.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

That is the way to go when the time is right, but if at the moment you're only getting the odd phone call from Robber's Way (which I hope you're ignoring) then if it was me I would wait until they start writing, let us know the content of the letters and we can suggest the best way forward from there. The CCA Request is a tactical tool which can stop them in their tracks when it becomes necessary; for instance if they seriously threaten to issue legal proceedings, as they can't obtain a judgment while a request is outstanding.

What you have at the moment is a good indication that the debt is probably unenforceable, based on what the SAR has produced. It's incomplete, but they only have to make "reasonable" efforts to find your data.
However, if a CCA Request is incomplete, it offers you protection against them obtaining a CCJ. That said, if you send too many you run the risk of them digging deeper and finally coming up with the goods. So I'd wait till it's necessary, particularly if you're on the way to it being Statute Barred. When was the last time you made payment or acknowledement of this debt?

Just my own opinion

It's probably better if you start a separate thread for this in the Unenforceability Diaries

Elsa x

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Hi. Im part of the MKDP assigned to Hoist club, and getting the odd call from Robberways.
i would just like to be clear(er) as to what they have and have not got. Was thinking of doing a follow up to the SARs pointing out that the agreement doc was incomplete and for them to send me a copy of ALL they have in relation to the document. I'm a little confused as to whether they are obliged to send me a copy of the full agreement under SAR, or if i have to do a separate CCA request:-(

I know where you're coming from with this. A SAR can not be cobbled together like a CCA request, so it's a chance to see exactly what they have. They are obliged to tell you what they don't have too because deliberately misleading you is not allowed. I had this whole thing going with a Bank and refused to accept unreadable copies and what appeared to be missing pages (like the reverse of a document) ..this went on for months but I stuck to my guns, reminding them of their obligations to send 'everything'..I kept reminding them they hadn't complied and complained to the Ombudsman..in the end the Bank just gave up. I'm not disagreeing with the more professional advice others have given you, but I do think a SAR can reveal a lot more than a CCA request and might provide a better clue as to how you proceed...or at least provide some confidence for you; even though if it came to the stick and lift it wouldn't carry the weight of a defective CCA request..the point is though if they could provide everything in a legible format via a SAR it might tell you what you were seeking..

[realfedup]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Hi Elsa, in answer its 2012.
have seen advice on other thread. will leave for now and CCA as appropriate.

SARs log rubbish. no mention of terms at inception, but i think its down to not originally being with BC. apart from front page of illegible application everything else sent refers to 2008, when BC brought MS/GF brand.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

As soon as they start writing start a new thread and let us know what they say

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Hi. Im part of the MKDP assigned to Hoist club, and getting the odd call from Robberways.
i would just like to be clear(er) as to what they have and have not got. Was thinking of doing a follow up to the SARs pointing out that the agreement doc was incomplete and for them to send me a copy of ALL they have in relation to the document. I'm a little confused as to whether they are obliged to send me a copy of the full agreement under SAR, or if i have to do a separate CCA request:-(

Follow my guide on that thread.

Have you you done a formal CCA? Yes or no. If no. Do one. If yes then ignore them. It's really that simple.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Even though Realfedup's just getting random phone calls at the moment and they've not actually written to him yet?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Even though Realfedup's just getting random phone calls at the moment and they've not actually written to him yet?

Has a CCA ever been done? If not then do one. Always do a CCA as its the start of protection.

No matter - we always do a CCA.

Am I being daft or what lol - I thought that was the AAD way?

Im reading SAR mentioned - so it's not just phone calls is it? There's been recent comm's to generate a SAR?

I dunno. It's early

[PlanB]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

Has a CCA ever been done? If not then do one. Always do a CCA as its the start of protection.

No matter - we always do a CCA.

Am I being daft or what lol - I thought that was the AAD way?

Im reading SAR mentioned - so it's not just phone calls is it? There's been recent comm's to generate a SAR?

I assume the SAR was sent to the original creditor (i.e. Barclays) so MKDP/Hoist wouldn't know about it and there'd have been no correspondence between them and the OP on that issue.

I agree a CCA request should be sent but I also think that can wait under Robinson Way write to the OP because the object of the exercise is to drag things out for as long as possible until the debt becomes statute barred (with any luck).

Plan B x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 09/2015]

I assume the SAR was sent to the original creditor (i.e. Barclays) so MKDP/Hoist wouldn't know about it and there'd have been no correspondence between them and the OP on that issue.

I agree a CCA request should be sent but I also think that can wait under Robinson Way write to the OP because the object of the exercise is to drag things out for as long as possible until the debt becomes statute barred.

Plan B x

Yep. Only CCA if there's comm's. Totally agree