Littlewoods

[cymruambyth]

Re: Littlewoods

All I ca say is WOW having followed Turbo's link and seeing all the input.
Thank you for all your efforts.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Littlewoods

Hi Turboman

Have you managed to have a look at the figures?
The FOS suggested that I find out who the underwriters are, so I want to fire a few things off!

[Turboman]

Re: Littlewoods

Been doing a bit of research for you---but re figures--I dont have enough info to work on--see below re how redress should be calculated and the FSA statement on what you should be given--I think you should go back to them and ask for info as stated in DISP APP 3.9.4

The new authorative method of calculating redress--see page 115--appendix 2 example 6 here

FSA Handbook 10/12-The assessment and redress of Payment Protection Insurance complaints

Also see here:

how does the ombudsman approach redress where a PPI policy has been mis-sold?

Aso this is what the FSA DISP (disputes) handbook says:

Not sure what page it is in PS 10/12, [EDIT-page 101] but it's in DISP APP 3 in Appendix 1 - specifically DISP APP 3.9.4:-

DISP APP 3.9.4 The firm should make any offer of redress to the complainant in a fair and balanced way. In particular, the firm should explain clearly to the complainant the basis for the redress offered including how any compensation is calculated and, where relevant, the rescheduling of the loan, and the consequences of accepting the offer of redress.

Hi Turboman

Have you managed to have a look at the figures?
The FOS suggested that I find out who the underwriters are, so I want to fire a few things off!

[ken100464]

Re: Littlewoods

Cym.

We have had 3 out of 4 of my won PPI's leave various charges off and mess about with the interest.

All 3 guess what, it wasnt mistakes !!!!!!!! in our favour for sure.

I have a very sneaky feeling they are at it again. Just this time they have the inherent consumers interest in a lump sum on their side.

I am sure if the consumer was more on the ball then the bill would be higher

[cymruambyth]

Re: Littlewoods

Thank you Turboman, unfortunately I don't have anything further re payments. I can't help but feel that hey think I will be so grateful that they have changed their minds and found in my favour that I will accept any payment without question!

[di30]

Re: Littlewoods

Do you think it may be of any help if I post my figures up from the same business just to give an idea?

I have details of all the insurance deducted.
If so let me know and I shall re-dig them out over the weekend.
xx

[cymruambyth]

Re: Littlewoods

Thanks, It may help to get an idea of if and how they are playing games!

[di30]

Re: Littlewoods

My details.....


In view of the information provided, we do not believe you would have benefited from the policy and we will be upholding your complaint and be making a redress payment.

We have refunded a total of £352.78 which includes premiums paid totalling £317.05 plus an additional payment of £35.73. The additional payment equals 11.27 % of the total premiums refunded and covers compensation on the amounts where your account would have been in credit but for the premium charge.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Littlewoods

Something isn't right with their maths!

[di30]

Re: Littlewoods

I'm not the one for calcs, but your probably right there Cym, maybe Turbo can shed some light on this when he has 5 mins x

[Turboman]

Re: Littlewoods

Studied this a bit more Cym

If you remember the old methods of claiming Bank Charges & PPI too, we merely used a simple spreadsheet and claimed 8% on each payment from the date paid. On 2005 ish entries--this would yield big 8% interest payments.
Those of us who understood interest more fully--also claimed the debited interest incurred cos of those charges at the contractual rate + 8% on top of that.

Oh Cym--those heady days have gone for ever on credit cards and revolving credit since the FSA consulted all banks and agreed that the new methods would be as detailed in its latest handbook---presently FSA Handbook 10/12--link is on one of my posts a few posts back.

For Credit Cards (& revolving credit0 we must use example 6 in Appendix 2-pages 115-116

Example 6

The complainant would not have purchased a PPI policy at the
outset. The credit card and the protection contract are live.

As described in DISP App 3.7.3E, the firm should pay to the complainant a sum equal to the total amount the complainant paid for the PPI including historic interest where relevant (plus simple interest on amounts where the credit account, but for the sale,would have been in credit).

In this example, this is the sum of the complainant’s previous PPI policy payments (with interest) added to the credit account. The simple interest is applied for each month that the notional credit card balance would have been positive.

The notional credit card balance for each month is calculated by adding the running PPI cost balance to the actual credit card balance for that month.

A detailed month-by-month example of how the compensation is calculated is shown on the following page.

As you can see from above and the spreadsheet example on p.116 its bloody hard to understand.

The debited interest incurred because of the extra charges for PPI are detailed in column F (Compound interest incurred on PPI incurred in month) though BUT you would not have any as Littlewoods do not charge interest --instead operate an interest free system.

So--as on the above quoted blue para. you would only get the 8% in months that the notional balance would have been in credit--

Your PPI in total was £142.84 ie on average only around £2-3 a month--so if you on most instances had a balance owing of more than £10 (say) you would not get any onterest

Sooooooooooo---in all probability--I believe the £37.71 interest would be realistic.

Just one final point.......the maths!

"Interest equals 26.4% of premiums refunded and covers interest on the amounts where your account would have been in credit but for the premiums charged".

This means that the interest on a sum somewhere between £100 & £200 is less than £40 from 2003.

They conclude you can complain etc, but 'as your policy was sold before 22 December 2003 ....the FOS may not be able to adjudicate........not a member of the Dispute Resolution Service until his date.'

Any comments gratefully received, as usual

Oh and I forgot to add that this account was settled in either 2004 or 2007. By my calculations they are taking the mickey!

Di--yes the actual summary %'ges are not correct in yours but are in Cym's---its so insignificant though--i wouldn't worry about it imo

I'm not the one for calcs, but your probably right there Cym, maybe Turbo can shed some light on this when he has 5 mins x

[di30]

Re: Littlewoods

Ooh thanks Turbo

So in that case, have they over or under paid in regards of the %'ges?

I believe what I actually paid of the insurance payments were correct, but was also unsure of the % tage.

Cheers hun x

[cymruambyth]

Re: Littlewoods

Thank you for the translation! I could remember the 8% and was trying to apply it to my payments.

Can you please just confirm, hat the account being paid off for x amount of years would not have an impact on the interest payment?

Thank you

[Turboman]

Re: Littlewoods

Ooh thanks Turbo

So in that case, have they over or under paid in regards of the %'ges?

I believe what I actually paid of the insurance payments were correct, but was also unsure of the % tage.

Cheers hun x

Di

As you can see in my post for Cym in post 146 the calculations are complex and you do not have enough information to check things out with a detailed statement of Interest Calculated-

However, they have worked out your PPI Pymnts to be refunded and 8% interest in those months where your balance would have been in credit-but for the PPI.

On typing up your redress letter-as well as detailing your PPI refund and the 8% Interest they have also included what % the interest represents in relation to the PPI Refund

This was not used in the calculation but probabably unneccessarily included to give the impression of precision.

So you have 3 items which gives us 3 scenarios

• If PPI of £352.78 right and interest of £35.73 right-the % should have been 10.28%
• If PPI of £352.78 right and quoted 11.27% right --then Interest should be £39.46 [£4.03 underpaid back to you]
• If interest of £35.73 right and %'ge of 11.27% right-PPI refund would be £317.04 [£35.74 overpaid backto you]

re the last scenario--I have tried to add up the figures on your attachment which unfortunately is out of focus ( I thought I taught you how to scan at the correct resolution in PAG--pmsl) and I actually get around £317 but you may have another page


I will leave you to decide if you wish to raise a query and risk losing £35.74 or gaining £4.03--rofl


Turbs

[Turboman]

Re: Littlewoods

Thank you for the translation! I could remember the 8% and was trying to apply it to my payments.

Can you please just confirm, hat the account being paid off for x amount of years would not have an impact on the interest payment?

Thank you

Quite true Cym as you get no Compound Interst on the debited interest cos of PPI-- as Littlewoods are INTEREST FREE--so you only get the 8% for some months as described above--and it is not time dependent (unlike the 8% awarded in Loans PPI which is like the old Bank Charges--the longer the days elapsed since payment-the bigger the interest awarded.)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Turbs