Pip's UE Diary

[SXGuy]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

"no need to seek an enforecment order to exercise our rights"

Notice the wording they use. Their rights under UE is to ask for payment, they need no enforcement for that.

If they wished to issue a CCJ or charging order, that would require seeking enforcement would it not?

Sounds to me like its a statement intended to confuse.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

"no need to seek an enforecment order to exercise our rights"

Notice the wording they use. Their rights under UE is to ask for payment, they need no enforcement for that.

If they wished to issue a CCJ or charging order, that would require seeking enforcement would it not?

Sounds to me like its a statement intended to confuse.

Or that they now think that they really are the Mafia Bank of North America and hence do not use any court order to enforce their demands?

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 7
Sainsbury's
Start date: June 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Feb 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request sent to Sainsbury's Bank (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN CCA received-- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to Sainsbury's
FEB Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott Payment not received // Failure to give attention to this will result in further action

Another bumper postbag day ... ... first this one:

FEB Letter from Sainsbury's We have complied with s.78 // I disagree that the application is unreadable // Agreement is and will remain enforceable // Full balance is due and in arrears. Also multiple quotations of something I've not read mentioned anywhere else before: The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) regulations 1983, SI 1983/1557 (the "Regulations")

Bit odd, this letter. No proper letterhead, no colour anywhere, just "Sainsbury's Finance" in black Arial Bold (yuk), with a Leeds address on the letter but franked 2nd class with a Birmingham postmark.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 4
MBNA
Start date: June 2003
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £5,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued March 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA Request sent to MBNA (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN CCA received -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says half and half
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to MBNA
JAN Letter received from MBNA saying "Balance sold to Britannica Recoveries S.á.r.l. Mortlake"; with letter in same envelope from "Moorgate Loan Servicing". The wording says "it's been purchased", but there is no Notice of Assignment ...
FEB Letter from MBNA: Documents provided do comply with CCA requirements // As such, there is no need to seek an enforcement order in order to exercise our rights.

This one's a bit of a first for me:

FEB Letter from Moorgate Loan Servicing: (referring to "Loan Account Number" -- it wasn't a loan). Not received payment on your a/c. Your a/c will now be transferred to our appointed agents, Arden Credit Management who will contact you to discuss repayment of the outstanding balance. (There is no reference in this letter to the original MBNA account whatsoever)

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

(Please see here for my introduction thread. Thanks!)

Pip's account no. 1
Capital One
Start date: Feb 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £4,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Sep 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request sent to Capital One (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN CCA received -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter
JAN Letter from Capital One: IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ AND RESPOND TO THIS LETTER.
We have not received agreed DMP payment. You may need to contact organisation administering DMP to ensure payment has been sent. If we do not receive payment we may pass account to a debt collection agency to recover full outstanding balance or may choose to sell the account to a debt purchaser. If DMP organisation are no longer acting on your behalf you need to contact us to discuss other options to repay the outstanding balance.
FEB Epic four-page letter from Capital One: You have failed to state why you allege the Agreement is improperly executed // [Carey and McGuffick citations] // Your account is fully enforceable // This is my final response in relation to this matter // If proceedings were commenced by you [yeah, as if!] on the basis there is no valid agreement we would strongly defend this. // Account remains defaulted and balance remains fully due and owing. // Among other things, McGuffick established that a creditor's threatening legal action and bringing legal proceedings do not amount to enforcement.
FEB Letter from Fredrickson International: Demand for payment on behalf of "our client"; "We are the agent/contact us, not Capital One"
FEB Letter from Fredrickson: LETTER BEFORE ACTION -- Must be paid in full within 7 days otherwise we will take immediate action // blah list of court/solicitor fees // bailiff or sheriff office may be instructed if x, y, and z // payment accepted by x, y and CREDIT CARD ...
FEB Sent Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action

And last but not least today:

FEB Letter from Fredrickson: We are unable to provide the documents you have requested. If you require documentation you can request this direct from our Client. // We are instructed to act as agents for our client; all our actions are lawful and on the instructions of our client. // We have removed your phone number from our system and any further correspondence shall be in writing. // We have placed your account on hold for 30 days and look forward to hearing from you with your payment proposals.

Thank goodness they stopped phoning. Niddy's letter that he'd written for Pooks The Bear worked a treat!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Letter from Sainsbury's We have complied with s.78 // I disagree that the application is unreadable // Agreement is and will remain enforceable /

You will, doubtless, have noticed the contradiction there.

Section 78 requires the creditor to supply a copy of the executed agreement and whilst Carey allows the creditor to reconstitute this from whatever bits and pieces they've found lying about the office or hung on a nail in the executive loo, an application is not an executed agreement.

Also multiple quotations of something I've not read mentioned anywhere else before: The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) regulations 1983, SI 1983/1557 (the "Regulations")

Oh, so they've realised that regulation 2 thereof (link) might apply to their illegible crap?

You might also read Consumer Credit (Agreements and Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) (Amendment) Regulations 1988 - link, the Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 - link and the Consumer Credit (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2004 - link, in case they have any relevant to what was sent.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

This one's a bit of a first for me:

FEB Letter from Moorgate Loan Servicing: (referring to "Loan Account Number" -- it wasn't a loan). Not received payment on your a/c. Your a/c will now be transferred to our appointed agents, Arden Credit Management who will contact you to discuss repayment of the outstanding balance. (There is no reference in this letter to the original MBNA account whatsoever)

It might be as well to wait until Arden write to you about your "loan", as the requirements for a credit agreement are different for a fixed sum credit agreement than they would be for a running credit agreement.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

It might be as well to wait until Arden write to you about your "loan", as the requirements for a credit agreement are different for a fixed sum credit agreement than they would be for a running credit agreement.

Thanks CC!

I was a bit >uh oh< when I saw three unfamiliar envelopes on the doormat today, but then thought, unfamiliar doesn't necessarily mean bad! And on the face of it, it doesn't seem that any of these three received today warrant responses just yet ...

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 4
MBNA
2012
JAN CCA Request sent to MBNA
JAN CCA received -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says half and half
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to MBNA
JAN Letter received from MBNA saying "Balance sold to Britannica Recoveries S.á.r.l. Mortlake"; with letter in same envelope from "Moorgate Loan Servicing". The wording says "it's been purchased", but there is no Notice of Assignment ...
FEB Letter from MBNA: Documents provided do comply with CCA requirements // As such, there is no need to seek an enforcement order in order to exercise our rights.
FEB Letter from Moorgate Loan Servicing: (referring to "Loan Account Number" -- it wasn't a loan). Not received payment on your a/c. Your a/c will now be transferred to our appointed agents, Arden Credit Management who will contact you to discuss repayment of the outstanding balance. (There is no reference in this letter to the original MBNA account whatsoever)

Got this today:

FEB Letter from Arden "Credit Managment": We have been instructed by Moorgate Loan Servicing to recover an amount outstanding to them. We have assumed responsibility for working with you to repay this amount; therefore all communication should be with us. Please call on receipt of this letter to discuss repayment. Easiest way to pay is debit or CREDIT CARD.

There is no reference at all to the OC so I'd be tempted to claim ignorance about any "loan" account ..? (I've never taken out a "loan"!) This is the first communication from Arden so wonder whether I should respond just yet? Many thanks as ever for the guidance!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Got this today:

FEB Letter from Arden "Credit Managment": We have been instructed by Moorgate Loan Servicing to recover an amount outstanding to them. We have assumed responsibility for working with you to repay this amount; therefore all communication should be with us. Please call on receipt of this letter to discuss repayment. Easiest way to pay is debit or CREDIT CARD.

There is no reference at all to the OC so I'd be tempted to claim ignorance about any "loan" account ..? (I've never taken out a "loan"!) This is the first communication from Arden so wonder whether I should respond just yet? Many thanks as ever for the guidance!

Well, you could reply that to suggest payment by credit card would increase one's borrowing which, in turn, is contrary to the current (and the previous) OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.

Or you could report the daft numpties to Consumer Direct for their suggestion that you borrow the money to pay the alleged debt.

Or you could just ignore it until they send something more important, but write the date on the envelope, staple it to the letter and file it away.

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Or you could just ignore it until they send something more important, but write the date on the envelope, staple it to the letter and file it away.

Thanks CC -- sounds like a plan [to do bugger all, minus the stapling]! I'm now very attached to my trusty concertina file! As this is their first contact, I'll be happy to ignore.
Ignorance will also be the operative word once I eventually do reply, if and when they send something more substantive ...

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 7
Sainsbury's
Start date: June 2004
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Feb 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
JAN CCA request sent to Sainsbury's Bank (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
JAN CCA received-- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says
JAN Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to Sainsbury's
FEB Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott Payment not received // Failure to give attention to this will result in further action
FEB Letter from Sainsbury's We have complied with s.78 // I disagree that the application is unreadable // Agreement is and will remain enforceable // Full balance is due and in arrears

Happy March! Got a letter today from BOS with a slight cranking up of the threats:

MAR Letter from Blair, Oliver & Scott Payment in arrears // Must pay immediately // Failure will result in your plan being cancelled and further action to recover debt. This may include door-to-door recovery agent to call at your address; court action to seek a judgment -- if successful we could seek an order allowing us to collect money direct from your employer or if you are a homeowner applying to court for a charging order on your property. Call today // payment can be made by CREDIT CARD

Wondering which one to respond with given that they mention charging orders etc. (even though I'm not a property owner ...)!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

When I got a similar threat from Bagshot Bums Regal last December I sent two letters in a single envelope to kill two with a single shot:
Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Threat by Creditor - To Commence Litigation
and
Our Templates | Harassment & Intimidation Templates | Harassment & Threat of Doorstep-Visit

That did the trick and I saved a bit on postage!

They are forgetting one tiny little point: they'd have to obtain a CCJ before they could go for an attachment of earnings or a CO (provided you were a homeowner)

Thanks Flower! Also, did they forget to mention that I'd have to default on a CCJ made by the court to pay £1 a month before the DCA could think about going after my non-existent house/car/disposable income?

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thanks Flower! Also, did they forget to mention that I'd have to default on a CCJ made by the court to pay £1 a month before the DCA could think about going after my non-existent house/car/disposable income?

Yes - they tend not to let such legal niceties get in the way of the threats they make.

The threats sent by Triton - the in-house threat monkeys of the Rotten Bunch of Scumbags - can be even better. I had one a little over a year ago above the copied signature of one Vicky Coleman which 'informed' me that my account would be passed to their solicitors who may then commence to obtain

a Charging Order/Inhibition against your assets for the sums outstanding. This may even result in our client being granted possession of your property.

Needless to say, the above threat was utter balderdash.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Possession for an unsecured credit card debt?

No - for an overdraft debt of less than £350. My house - which I own outright - is worth at least £250,000 even without being tarted up; next door but one, built at around the same time and to much the same plan but renovated nicely, sold recently for about twice that.

Try-it-on were also on my case for my RBS card in 2010 but I'm sure I would recall if they'd written any like that!!!

They probably got more aggressive after so many people like me ignored them...

It would be an unwarranted compliment to suggest that they are liars.

They may try to repossess Pip's yacht though...

Leaving Pip only a few rubber ducks to play with in the bath?