Pip's UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Nah just leave it. They're in default until they respond.

You have proof. Fine. Job done. Sit back and chill man

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Cripes! Bumper postbag today. Starting with two missives from Lloyds TSB and their inhouse DCA:

Pip's account no. 3
Lloyds TSB
Jan Reply to CCA request received from Lloyds TSB -- Niddy says !

Jan Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter

Jan Letter from BLS Collections: "Repayment plan you agreed to is still overdue. We have previously reminded you about the money and you must pay the amount outstanding straight away. If you don't pay the outstanding amount to bring your account back on track within 10 days you will fall further into arrears etc./payment plan will be cancelled and full balance will be due. They're Lloyds TSB's inhouse DCA/letter printing machine -- do I need to respond to this? See also Lloyds TSB letter received below

Jan Letter from Lloyds TSB: According to our records we supplied reconstituted copies of the agreement in place at the time the account was opened and the one currently in place. By providing these copies, we satisfied our obligation under s.78. // The regulations define what is required of a "copy". Whilst regulation 3 provided "every copy" of an executed agreement... shall be a true copy". [sic -- sentence ends there] Regulation 3(2) (b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature. // In summary, to comply with s.78, copy does not need to be a copy with the customer's signature on it. We do not have to produce an actual copy of the document signed. Purpose of s.78 is to allow debtors access to their T&Cs and by providing this we have complied with s.78 // We have no obligation to provide a signed copy of the agreement. The fact that we haven't provided one doesn't mean you are relieved of the obligation to make payments pursuant to the agreement. // At the moment we are unable to trace a copy of the signed application form therefore we are not in a position to provide a copy at this time. However we can confirm our procedure has always been to obtain our customer's signature to an agreement containing the PTs before entering into a credit card agreement. As such we are confident that the agreement remains enforceable. // We do not agree that the agreement is unenforceable. As such we will not write off the existing balance on the agreement or pay your costs in relation to this matter. <Blah adverse credit history will remain, further adverse notations will be added If your client [I'm "my" client?] defaults against the required payments. // We note your comment that the copy of the executed agreement does not contain all the prescribed terms pursuant to the CCA and the Consumer Credit (Agreement) Regulations 1983. The Bank's agreements have always complied with the requirements of all relevant legislation and we are confident in our ability to demonstrate this. As such, your client's agreement is enforceable and they should continue to make payments when they become due. // I note your comments regarding the legibility of the copy of the original signed CCA that we sent to you [they didn't send one]. We are entirely confident that the agreement would have been fully legible when you originally signed it. In addition, any information that you claim is missing would have been detailed in the copy of your executed agreement which was sent. // The quote you have selected from the judgement in Carey must be read in context. The judge was commenting on the need to provide historic as well as current T&Cs. The Carey decision went on to define what was meant by a true copy of an agreement and set out that this did not necessarily mean a carbon, photocopy, microfiche copy or other exact copy of the signed credit agreement. Indeed sectino 180(1)(b) and regulation 3(2) of the Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents Regulations expressly allow certain matters to be omitted from this copy. These include any signature box, signature or date of signature. // May I remind you, failure to make payments will result in collection activities/be reported to CRAs etc. Financial Ombudsman leaflet enclosed // Signed by a real human with a real biro!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 6
RBS Mint
Start date: March 2000
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £5,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Nov 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
Jan CCA Request sent to RBS

Jan CCA received -- emailed Niddy --

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 1
Capital One
Start date: Feb 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £4,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued Sep 2010.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

2012
Jan CCA request sent to Capital One (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)

Jan CCA received -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says

Jan Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter

Jan Letter from Capital One: IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ AND RESPOND TO THIS LETTER
We have not received agreed DMP payment. You may need to contact organisation administering DMP to ensure payment has been sent. If we do not receive payment we may pass account to a debt collection agency to recover full outstanding balance or may choose to sell the account to a debt purchaser. If DMP organisation are no longer acting on your behalf you need to contact us to discuss other options to repay the outstanding balance.

Blimey. A lot of post for one day!

[garlok]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Its Friday mate. They seem to time it so that they think they are ruining your weekend. Most of our stuff used to arrive on a Friday. Silly people.

Interestingly Lloyds are somewhat deluded if they believe ALL of their documentation is/was fully compliant. H'mmm. There is enough history around to refute that particular statement. Lloyds Acc No.3 I would wait and see what they turn up next. they have admitted essentially no signature as I see it or application form so the rest is just drivel at this point.


Cap 1 Acc No1. I would see if they send it on to a DCA or sell (yes please). The letter is all if buts and maybes. No response to your letter. Ball is in their court to repsond properly.

regards
Garlok

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Looks like Lloyds think you have a Claims Management Company acting for you, did they ever receive any correspondence from the CMC you were using by any chance?

Possibly! That was quite a long time ago though. This letter is all a bit of a jumbled cut-and-paste job.

Its Friday mate. They seem to time it so that they think they are ruining your weekend. Most of our stuff used to arrive on a Friday. Silly people.

Interestingly Lloyds are somewhat deluded if they believe ALL of their documentation is/was fully compliant. H'mmm. There is enough history around to refute that particular statement. Lloyds Acc No.3 I would wait and see what they turn up next. they have admitted essentially no signature as I see it or application form so the rest is just drivel at this point.

Thanks Garlok! I did think "oh bloody hell" when I saw four bits of creditor post on the doormat ..! My past experiences of contacting BLS had been like this in terms of getting any sense or relevant response out of them. Maybe it really is just a computer letter printing machine in a PO box in Oxford. Having said that is there any point at all in responding to this BLS letter? (Just as far as what has been mentioned elsewhere recently about not ignoring?) Although admittedly, I can't find anything applicable in the template library. I'm assuming that BLS Collections and Lloyds TSB are to be looked at as one and the same?

Cap 1 Acc No1. I would see if they send it on to a DCA or sell (yes please). The letter is all if buts and maybes. No response to your letter. Ball is in their court to repsond properly.

Yes, they haven't responded to the Missing Prescribed Terms letter yet.

Many thanks for the advice everyone. As ever, it's very much appreciated!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Cripes! Bumper postbag today. Starting with two missives from Lloyds TSB and their inhouse DCA:

Whilst this looks really pretty, writing a letter in a format as above makes it impossible to read - please try and just abbreviate events in black

However I did notice one part that interests me....

"At the moment we are unable to trace a copy of the signed application form therefore we are not in a position to provide a copy at this time"

As a result keep this letter very safe and if anyone hassles you simply respond with a copy of it with one of these: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Letter Previously Confirming No CCA

Well done, that's a result

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Jan CCA received -- emailed Niddy --

Ok they have submitted all the terms etc and thus this looks enforceable however I don't know, something about it just doesn't sit right - moreso the markings on the paperwork suggest that it's a cut n paste effort and so for now, I would look to respond as follows: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

As things stand, the terms don't appear to be the reverse of the form in which you signed, the recon has extra terms added and it's not that clear.... Easy to fix unfortunately, thus for the moment it's back to the blagging game

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Whilst this looks really pretty, writing a letter in a format as above makes it impossible to read - please try and just abbreviate events in black

However I did notice one part that interests me....

"At the moment we are unable to trace a copy of the signed application form therefore we are not in a position to provide a copy at this time"

As a result keep this letter very safe and if anyone hassles you simply respond with a copy of it with one of these: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Letter Previously Confirming No CCA

Well done, that's a result

Thanks Niddy! Sorry about all the blurb -- it was quite a long letter -- wasn't sure what was relevant or not. Will try to abbreviate a lot more next time!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Ok they have submitted all the terms etc and thus this looks enforceable however I don't know, something about it just doesn't sit right - moreso the markings on the paperwork suggest that it's a cut n paste effort and so for now, I would look to respond as follows: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

As things stand, the terms don't appear to be the reverse of the form in which you signed, the recon has extra terms added and it's not that clear.... Easy to fix unfortunately, thus for the moment it's back to the blagging game

Thanks again! I did think that about the convenient "copy of the reverse" of the application form that didn't fit. Will be happy to blag with RBS -- the outstanding balance is only 0.4% of Stephen Hester's bonus so they might not notice it's missing

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 4
MBNA

2012
Jan CCA Request sent to MBNA (Royal Mail delivery conf. printed)
Jan CCA received -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says half and half
Jan Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter to MBNA

Jan Letter received from MBNA saying "Balance sold to Britannica Recoveries S.á.r.l. Mortlake"; with letter in same envelope from "Moorgate Loan Servicing". The wording says "it's been purchased", but there is no Notice of Assignment ...

It's been all-go the past couple of days!

It's the lack of a "Notice of Assignment" that seems a bit odd to me. Should I send a "sold while in dispute"? MBNA haven't responded yet to the "Missing Prescribed Terms" letter...

[garlok]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thats It. The NoA has NO prescribed format and either party to the purchase (seller or buyer) can just let you know as they have done. It can actually be just a couple of lines within a letter on another subject.

Just sit and wait to see what they say when they contact you. Then we can take up the story from there.

regards
Garlok

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 6
RBS Mint

2012
Jan CCA Request sent to RBS
Jan CCA received -- emailed Niddy --Niddy says (post #92)
Jan Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter

Feb Received letter from RBS: We have met our obligations under s78(1). We see no reason to enter into further correspondence about alleged CCA breaches. We do not consider this account to be in dispute. Contact CAB or similar if you continue to doubt the veracity of what we have told you about our having complied with our obligations under s78(1).
-----------------
Hello!

I had my first bout of work of the year last week (with a ridiculous 19-hour day for one of them) so haven't visited AAD for about a week. Glad to have some income in the pipeline although it'll probably be April or May before I get paid for it! Amazingly though, in the past ten days or so I only got one "we are looking into your complaint" letter from Capital One and the above reply today from RBS.

Five out my seven debts are still with original creditors (Lloyds TSB, Halifax/Sainsbury's [i.e. Bank of Scotland], Capital One and RBS). I was about to launch into a bout of speculation around this fact but then realised it's pointless to speculate! But... if there's any relevance to this, I'm all ears to any advice!


P.S. "Doubt the veracity" ... nice!

[Pip]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Pip's account no. 2
Halifax
Start date: Oct 2005
Balance as of Dec 2011: approx. £7,000
Last "full" payment (i.e. within their stipulated minimum): Sep 2010 (approx).
Last DMP payment via CCCS: Dec 2011
Default notice issued April 2011.
Status: Last payment in Dec 2011 (smaller amount in Dec 2011 than the regular DMP payment had been up to that month)

Jan CCA received from HBOS directly -- emailed Niddy -- Niddy says and to wait for now to see what comes back from other lenders.
Jan Rather cryptically, have received a letter and £1 cheque from Moorcroft: our client is unable to produce a copy of your document given that the agreement is over 6 years old and to this end we therefore return the £1 payment [...]

(I'm not sure how much of diary history to copy here as there's quite a lot, but the full diary for this is here: (page 1 post no. 2) allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post

I got my first home collections letter today!

Feb Moorcroft letter: "Home Collections Division". You have defaulted on agreement we reached [I didn't negotiate any agreement with Moorcroft]. This may involve our local rep calling at your home in next few day to try to assist you [...] Payment must reach us in three days. If no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local rep we'll have to recommend to client that solicitors commence legal proceedings without further notice.

Not sure which letters to respond with ... as noted above, the OC sent an enforceable CCA then a few days later the muppet DCA said "the client is unable to produce a copy"! I would like to send the Doorstep Threat letter, but also shove another appropriate letter in with it, but not sure which one(s)!

[Deepie]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

(I'm not sure how much of diary history to copy here as there's quite a lot, but the full diary for this is here: (page 1 post no. 2) allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post

I got my first home collections letter today!

Feb Moorcroft letter: "Home Collections Division". You have defaulted on agreement we reached [I didn't negotiate any agreement with Moorcroft]. This may involve our local rep calling at your home in next few day to try to assist you [...] Payment must reach us in three days. If no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local rep we'll have to recommend to client that solicitors commence legal proceedings without further notice.

Not sure which letters to respond with ... as noted above, the OC sent an enforceable CCA then a few days later the muppet DCA said "the client is unable to produce a copy"! I would like to send the Doorstep Threat letter, but also shove another appropriate letter in with it, but not sure which one(s)!

Try this along with the doorstep one ....CCA Query - Letter Previously Confirming No CCA .........